Posted on 10/18/2001 7:25:25 AM PDT by Eala
Larry Ellison is promoting a new National ID Card based on Oracle software. He'll give the database engine away free to show his good spirit (but maintenance and upgrades will not be free.)
Sample of Larry Ellison's new National ID Card
Larry Ellison is promoting a new National ID Card based on Oracle software. He'll give the database engine away free to show his good spirit (but maintenance and upgrades will not be free.)
Here's a prototype of what his new card might look like. Of course, it would do nothing to combat terrorism, but it would help the government and corporations keep closer tabs on innocent people in the USA.
Turns out Jefferson may have gotten in backwards. The price of excessive vigilance is liberty.
More ironic than funny: Ellison's family took its name (not that long ago) from Ellis Island. He wants his card to be "optional" for citizens who don't mind being interrogated and searched when they travel, but mandatory for immigrants.
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation? We fight stuff like Larry's card.
This guy is a complete jerk, and his software sucks worse every day.
As a regular business traveler, I can see no better way to form two lines at the airport (citizens and non-citizens) thus giving the latter more scutiny.
It works in Europe, South America and other places around the world that have had to deal with terrorism on thier shores for a good number of years.
Are we to wait for the government to somehow make our pourous borders work?
Or to issue everyone passports instead - very illogical (besides, one of the terrorist got in on a phony passport from a non-existant country)
Or should we just continue to rely on our state issued drivers license that is easily forged (heck, there are 50 systems for them to pick from) - where states like Tennessee and others are already issuing to illegal immigrants ...
No, let's continue to make emotional "I don't want it" arguments with no basis on the real goal of getting this country moving again.
And if I never heard of Larry Ellison again, it would be great.
Why is it that the solution to every problem caused by uncivilized people is to put more restrictions and regulations on the civilized? The difficulty of obtaining a reasonable firearm for self-protection by an average, law-abiding citizen is just one example.
You forgot the optional "personalized matching inscription."
He's suggesting it be voluntary for citizens--hello? Is anybody reading the whole article before they start foaming at the mouth? He's also suggesting it be mandatory for non-citizens.
Are these people here who are suggesting that all we have to do is enforce our borders better and we can solve this problem the same ones who are in another thread screaming about how we should close our borders and stop letting Syrians come over here to flight school? Well, to you delusional folks out there who think that these people can't just 'sneak' in somewhere along the massive Canadian border (or even perhaps at one of the unmanned border stations), I hope your right not to have an ID card makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and safe at night.
It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation. I would proudly display mine right next to my driver's license, and never ever feel like I was doing anything other than my patriotic duty to show my absolute right to be here as an American-born citizen. For everybody else, it's a privelege to be here, and with priveleges come responsibility and obligations.
Nonsense. Several people have made the excellent points that: 1)It simply can't work (no suicide bomber is going to give a flip whether or not his identity is known), 2)It starts a slippery slope of tax intrusions, gun-ownership intrusions, etc, and 3)This is just a way for Ellison to move his lips from Clintoon's @$$ to the taxpayer's teat.
Have national IDs in these places stopped terrorism? How about crime in general? The last I heard, other countries suffer both terrorism and crime, so why should we become more like them than we already are?
It is amazing how God's Word clearly predicted where the world is heading: The Mark of the Beast, 666.
Who would have ever thought that a terrorist attack upon America would be the catalyst for a "National smart ID Card." these events have conditioned the population towards accepting the idea of an ID card for safety, identification and cash less monetary transactions (harder for terrorists to conduct their business.) All under the guise of "it is for your own good and protection and "national security."
The National ID card will come up short for one very good reason. IT IS NOT FOOL PROOF, it can be LOST or STOLEN. Unless it is implanted or tattooed on one's hand or forehead. How convenient,... Interestingly enough, the world will be proclaiming "peace and safety."
It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card
[FADE IN to Bill Clinton sitting at a mahogany desk, in a setting somewhat similar to the Oval Office.]
Have you been caught in a lie because you just couldn't keep your stories internally consistent? I can help you! With just a few weeks' study at Clinton College, you, too, can be such an expert liar that you'll always be able to get away with it!
In case you haven't been paying attention, privacy advocates have decried these for years. So now you want to use previous losses of privacy to justify further losses of privacy. Later, when the next Big Brother scheme comes up, the same thing will be repeated - "Why not have biometric cameras in every public place, national ID's track your every move anyway". This is called the Slippery Slope, and WE DRAW THE LINE RIGHT HERE.
It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation.
It would make me feel like a character in 1984, or a peon in some Iron Curtain Soviet Republic. It would make me ashamed to live in such a nation that no longer respects privacy or freedom.
It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation.
I'm not interested in living in a police state so you can 'feel better'. Go right ahead and carry whatever ID you want, just don't think you can force it on others.
The Oracle Co is the greatest DB in the world. This company can do anything. By the way, the software needed to check an ID could be written in Java and anyone could verify the card. Which means anyone with the Internet could be helping keep our citizens safe.
Sold mine at a loss when they hired Joe Lockhart
So, now you want to give the people who f^(# up credit checks the ability to similarly f^(# up a system that determines whether or not citizens are to be permitted to live in their own country.
I'm starting to see why Aristotle thought that the brain was simply a cooling tower for the bloodstream.
Awww...What a good little german you are. You may board the bus to Dresden now where you'll be safe.
Thank God Bush put the kibosh on this idea right away. What is Ashcroft thinking, meeting with this turd? Shouldn't his calender be a little full right about now?
PING
How come we have Microsoft bashing all the time and no corresponding Oracle bashing? At least Ellison and his product deserve it!
Yep, I'm feeling a whole lot better.
He was reportedly discussing such with a close friend/colleague who happened to be an Evangelical Christian. The Christian noted that what he shared about the ID chip fit very well the Biblical prophecies about a mark of The Beast being placed in the palm or forehead. Supposedly of all the places experimented with for implanting the chip--the palm and forehead were the best for a variety of reasons.
The reason Christians are averse is because God says anyone who accepts the mark will be unable to be with Him in Heaven. But the government will say that anyone without it will be unable to buy or sell. . . . and evidently martyrdom awaits those who refuse the chip.
There have been many dreams and visions by disconnected individuals confirming various parts of such scenarios.
Much evil starts out looking beautiful and justified for seemingly admirable or at least pleasant reasons.
Freedom is priceless. Giving it away for chaff--whether insecurities or mindless submissiveness--will eventually be seen to be inexcusable IMHO.
We have a national ID card. The software to manage 300+ million cards was donated by Larry Ellison and Oracle Corp to the Federal Government. Oracle Corp has now eclipsed Microsoft in size, primarily due to the $10,000,000,000 per year fee Oracle is charging the Federal Government in maintenance fees for the software. The ID card is a "smart" card. It contains a chip that has all your demographic info, your fingerprints, face print, retinal scan and DNA sample. The card is interfaced to your banking accounts.
You don't need a credit or debit card anymore, you just use your national ID card (or NIcard as it has come to be known).
Everyone has a NIcard: citizens, students here from foreign countries, legal alliens, foreigners here on business or taking a vacation, everybody. You present your NIcard when you apply for a job, BUY A FIREARM, take out a loan, go to the doctor or hospital, buy a car and, of course, anytime you buy anything you don't pay cash for. As an added benefit, the government allows you to pay your taxes by using your NIcard to debit your banking account. Virtually all vendors accept the NIcard over the internet. You don't need paper checks anymore, you've got a NIcard.
In fact, so few people use cash any more there are a bunch a radicals calling for abolishing all paper and coin money. Studies are done showing how much money this saves (no more US Mint, etc.).
And, of course, everytime you use your NIcard the transaction is entered into the NIcard database powered by Oracle, the largest corporation in the world.
Now, to me this is a pretty scary scenario; for other folks it sounds like utopia. Leaving aside all the posibilities for fraud, blackmail, etc., let me ask a very basic question: How would the NIcard have prevented 911? Those guyz could have easily gotten a NIcard. (In fact, in this scenario, a NIcard is required to take flying lessons or to board a plane.) Bottom line: The NIcard allows the government to do lots of things (some of which are damned scary). But it will do NOTHING to prevent terrorists from doing their thing.
It works in Europe, South America and other places around the world that have had to deal with terrorism on thier shores for a good number of yearsDoes it? Where would you rather be; Boston, Belfast, or Bogota? Hey, how's Beriut lately?
Or should we just continue to rely on our state issued drivers license that is easily forged (heck, there are 50 systems for them to pick from) - where states like Tennessee and others are already issuing to illegal immigrants ...What, and allow them to perfect ONE ID card style?
Anyway, just how "voluntary" will this particular mark be? I seem to recall SS numbers being "voluntary" and "not for identification purposes", but now I can't even get a blasted fishing license without one. Have to keep those that would rather live off the land than on money (you can't get a job, credit card, savings account or a check cashed without one) in check.
BWAAA-HA-HA!!
"Terrorist Risk: Reg. disobeys airport orders not to land."
I've got a "homeland security" proposal -- missile launchers. Maybe then he'd be more attentive to ground control.
Well just because I finally verified to post does not mean I have been reading and learning.
If databases are bad why is the FBI using them to find the money trail and email trail. It is pure speculation that they could do it without DB. Think if instead of a stamp you get a barecode to send mail where would we be with this Anthrax scare. Identification is a tough call but if there is no log, then no history will be done.
I see the country thru rights of the honest and true and hope anyone that breaks the laws and are not caught an injust to me.
Americans should be afraid of those that can not be Identified and DMV and the rest of the agencies in our GOV do not pass data. All Oracle is suggesting is to make a common DB.
Lets find those that dont belong and keep America safe.
After the first two sentences, I was prepared to read and enjoy a humorous, sarcastic jibe at Oracle. And then I realized you were serious...
Agreed. But a national ID card won't increase your ability to find those that don't belong.
And therein lies the big problem. Once it's common, it becomes easily extensible.
For this particular application, I would prefer 1000 proprietary DBs to one common DB anyday.
Bill Gates is a booby head! Bill Gates is a booby head! Nyaa Nyaa...
As such, "civil disobedience" is very practical. Remember, far fewer blacks ever actually did it.
As such, "civil disobedience" is very practical. Remember, far fewer blacks ever actually did it.
My administrative law professor made the same point.
Efficiency is not in and of itself a good thing.
Why are you looking at this as "half full" ... look at it as a quick and easy way to identify who ISN'T a citizen.... we sure can't rely on our border patrol to do this.
The difficulty of obtaining a reasonable firearm for self-protection by an average, law-abiding citizen is just one example.
And I am with you on that one ... I would rather flash my "I am a citizen" ID to buy a guy than to have to go through a thumbprint registration and 30 day wait just because we don't have such a system. Not that these two extemes have been tied in any way .....
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