H.R.3162 PATRIOT ACT{ YOUR NEW- POLICESTATE- LOOK FOR YOUR SELF}

thomas ^ | GOVERNMENT

[Jolly Rodgers]

How many pieces of legislation that authorized additional police powers with a sunset clause that actually did sunset can you name? It's a great tool for slipping past opposition, but I can't think of a single one that has failed to be reauthorized when the sunset provision struck.

[PhilipFreneau]

The federal government does have a track record. For example: (1) the original federal firearms law, implemented to combat organized crime, has been expanded into such a massive miriad of legalese that citizens can commit felonies without even realizing it, simply by having the wrong barrel, or the wrong stock; and (2) the original asset forfeiture law (RICO), implemented to combat organized crime, has also been expanded to a massive miriad of legalese, and to state and local levels, that makes all private property subject to seizure for even minor offenses, or for none at all. And now the government has decided to take away additional rights of citizens, while letting foreign nationals run loose in our society? Give me a break!

Frankly, only a fool would trust the federal government with power over any right. The duty of the federal government is to enforce our rights, and to take none of them away.

The government can, however, violate the rights of non-citizens in any manner it pleases, since non-citizens have no rights under our constitution. And until the government expels all foreign nationals and secures our borders, and repeals all law that infringe the rights of citizens, it deserves no respect.

[MJY1288]

Well, looking at your contributions here on this thread it speaks volumes for the size of your mind. I am no Fed Gov lover, I love my country, and when we have foriegners coming to this country and using the freedoms we have to kill us, I think it's time we do something about it. I don't agree with some of this bill, but to sit and do nothing just invites more deadly attacks. These terrorist were using the net to send their messages, they took advantage of our poorly enforced immigration laws, and they murdered 5000 innocent people. What would you suggest we do? or will you just flame away

[TightSqueeze]

So tell us, how would you fight terrorism in this country if you were incharge?

Thank God I am not in charge, I do not have privileged information, so my guess is as good as yours.
Based on what I know, I would start with the obvious, first I would close the borders for 90 days. I would revoke all visas, except those issued for humanitarian aid or political refuge. Once the Clinton legacy was cleaned up I would be better able to see what should next be done. I would not sell out the American public with unconstitutional anti-terrorist laws to appease the left wing. I would not curtail American liberty to cover for past administration mistakes. If I was President Bush I not jeopardize my reelection by squashing innocent citizens freedoms.

[max61]

This bill hasn't taken away any rights of American citizens.

Your pseudonym is a pathetic insult to Ronald Reagan. It's obvious that you've never even read the Constitution otherwise you could not make such an assinine statement.

Article IV.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I guess you must've missed this part.

---max

[Godebert]

"How many pieces of legislation that authorized additional police powers with a sunset clause that actually did sunset can you name? It's a great tool for slipping past opposition, but I can't think of a single one that has failed to be reauthorized when the sunset provision struck."

Exactly! The "assault weapons" ban is supposed to sunset soon. What are the chances of that happening? We can't have those nutty freedom-loving right-wingers putting dreaded bayonets on their evil black rifles.

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

. If you don't have anything to hide you wont be effected by this bill.

With all due respect, that is the most naive statement ever uttered. Our law is meant to protect us from "IF" situations. I'm sorry....If you are not hiding Jews, then you would let us search your house. "IF" you have no white sheets hanging in your closet, you will let us search your house. "IF" you have no secrets, we can tap your phone.

When the government is allowed to operate on the "if" point of view, the burden falls to you to prove you are innocent. i.e.

I have nothing to hide

Prove it

[Joe Hadenuf]

If the FBI was serious about ridding of us terrorist they would do something about our immigration "free for all". Sadam Hussien could enter our nation with little or no effort. We have millions upon millins of criminal illegal aliens from every nation on earth. And the FBI wants to look into our computers?? BS.

Our borders and immigration policies have become a national digrace and now complete national security nightmare. If they are serious, why haven't they ended this "immigration free for all"?

[kempo]

After reading your answer I'm sure you are no great thinker nor a leader. The crime has been already commited. Its called murder and attempeted murder. You know, the thousands killed on 9-11 and the mass mailings of anthrax. Now come on, your incharge, go find the criminals and their accomplist without violating anyones constitutional rights. Well, we're still waiting, people are still dieing and it looks like there will be more attacks. Come one Tight lets give it moving.

[billbears]

but the ones I am concerned about the most will sunset Dec. 31st, 2005.

Now that is a JOKE!!! Do you honestly believe any of these provisions will sunset once in place? Oh, no of course not. Sometime in the next 4 years, when no one is paying attention, there will be a rider attached to some bill at some time stating that all provisions are in place permanently.

I guess it's time to bring out the ol' magic markers again and start striking off parts of the Constitution. But this time the fourth amendment to the Constitution is gone. Does that not strike a little fear into any of you 'safety first, we're scared' statists? Does anyone remember anything about the Founders of this nation except little catch phrases, that when misread under a full moon on every third Thursday, support a poster's points for one EMPIRE? My ancestors did at one time, God bless them, and they were the last to fight for the Constitution, yes for the Constitution and for what it meant. But the statists, the biggest god awful bunch of one Union, strong federal government bottom dwellers have brought this upon your heads and ours to boot. We might as well just tear the Constitution up right now and replace it with the Pledge of Allegiance (written by a socialist preacher) and whatever else we would be expected to recite. Than we would be the sheep the Founders never wanted us to become.

Thanks a lot

[Godebert]

" If they are serious, why haven't they ended this "immigration free for all"?"

Maybe they're too busy surfing right-wing "hate" sites like Freerepublic.

; )

[kempo]

In other words you would do little or nothing while thousands more die. You are truely a pea brain.

[Godebert]

It's never too late to get your GED.

[Jolly Rodgers]

Now come on, your incharge, go find the criminals and their accomplist without violating anyones constitutional rights. Well, we're still waiting, people are still dieing and it looks like there will be more attacks. Come one Tight lets give it moving.

If we can't find a way to deal with crime without violating people's rights, then the whole damned American experiment is over. Apparently you failed to learn that rights are what this country was founded to protect. Rushing to discard them in a time of crisis while chasing the illusion of security is exactly the tactic that tyrants the world over have used to subjugate their citizens. Think about it.

[kempo]

Thats so profound. I'll have to print that and hang it on my wall.

[Jolly Rodgers]

Exactly! The "assault weapons" ban is supposed to sunset soon. What are the chances of that happening? We can't have those nutty freedom-loving right-wingers putting dreaded bayonets on their evil black rifles.

The endangered species was written specifically to protect the national symbol, the Bald Eagle. That piece of legislation has been sunsetted for years, but every year congress reauthorizes it by funding it in the budget. Neither party is willing to surrender the control they have over private property owners by allowing that piece of corruption to retire.

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

Freaks like you say "War? Why should I have to sacrifice one iota of anything? I demand to continue my pathetic existence without having to sacrifice one little thing."

With all due respect, you are wrong. I am prepared to make the ulitmate sacrifice for what I consider important. The preservation of freedom for my children and grandchildren. It is the same sacrifice our founding fathers made.

Questioning acts of government which threatens those freedoms are what made this country.