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To: keithtoo;lexcorp
Most Germans would consider themselves Christians because "All Germans are Christians, aren't they?"

Additionally, the Church had (has) a special relationship to the German State (and in other European states), much like the Anglican Church in England. There is no genuine "separation" of Church and State - meaning no offical State Church - as in this country. Taxes subsidize the official Church. Clergy are State employees and people who are registered "christians" receive wedding and burial privileges given only through the Church. Otherwise, they have to pay for them even though they were already taxed for them.

So, being a "christian" in many European countries means something other than being a Christian (in the actual sense of the word). Therefore, no doubt many of the Nazis were "christians" but not Believers; most people were (and are) "christians" in name only. If you will remember, Hitler made great efforts to subvert the State Church and make it subservient to Nazi State doctrine and policy - and he was by and large successful in turning the State into an accomplice (if only a passive one) of the Nazi Party, much like the Soviets did with the Russian Orthodox Church.

13 posted on 01/06/2002 2:02:55 PM PST by Gritty
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To: Gritty
That's not exactly true, since what you conveniently forget is that Stalin had practically all the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church (that didn't leave the country) executed or sent to die in the camps by the 1930's, so that any cooperation between the 4 surviving bishops (out of about 250 before the Bolshevik takeover) was literally a matter of physical survival. The same strategy would work in ANY religious,political, or other institution in human history -- kill the leaders layer after layer until you find at least one who will consent to cooperate. Human history tells us that there will ALWAYS be at least some such people.

In fact, Hitler COULD have used the Communist strategy and found at least one rabbi to be head of a loyal Jewish group to "cooperate" with the Nazi regime, had he thought about it and had reason to twist reality the same way the Communists did. You have no reason to tarnish the martyrial fate of tens of millions of people with the weakness of a few. Of course, Russia will still be a believing Christian country long after many other countries have ceased to be.

17 posted on 01/06/2002 3:56:38 PM PST by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: Gritty
If you will remember, Hitler made great efforts to subvert the State Church and make it subservient to Nazi State doctrine and policy - and he was by and large successful in turning the State into an accomplice (if only a passive one) of the Nazi Party, much like the Soviets did with the Russian Orthodox Church.

Also, remember that it was Bill klinton who ordered American military chaplains to not preach against abortion in their sermons. Another example of klintonian thought control, and his deep and abiding contempt for both the military, and and religion he could could not make subservient to him.

Bill and Hitlery are stalinists.

31 posted on 01/08/2002 8:21:38 AM PST by 300winmag
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