Palestine, a Land virtually laid waste with little population

EretzYisroel.org -- excerpt from "From Time Immemorial" ^ | 1984 | Joan Peters

[Victoria Delsoul]

As a result of centuries of Turkish neglect and misrule, following on the earlier ravages of successive conquerors, the land had been given over to sand, marsh, the anopheles mosquito, clan feuds, and Bedouin marauders. A population of several millions had shrunk to less than one tenth that number-perhaps a quarter of a million around 1800, and 300,000 at mid-century. Palestine had indeed become "sackcloth and ashes."

Great info. Thanks so much.

[Goblins]

Unfortunately the british had no legal authority to give anybody anything except for britain.

[Sabertooth]

Dennis's post and Temple Mount pics at #6 kicks some serious booty, don't they?

[ppaul]

The book you quoted from, From Time Immemorial, is probably the best, most thoroughly researched and historically accurate treatise on the subject of modern Israel and the Arab-Israeli conflict. I thought it was out of print. Must be being re-printed now with the renewed interest after 9/11.
Thanks.

[Sabertooth]

Unfortunately the british had no legal authority to give anybody anything except for britain.

Wrong, the Turks lost a war in which they were an aggressor. One of the penalties for that type of behavior is that nations lose territory. But even if what you said was true, how is it relevant?

Turkey's not arguing the point. They make no claim. Are you suggesting that we overturn what happened in 1922, and boot the "Jordanians?"

Of course you aren't. To do so would illustrate the pointlessness of your statement. Sorry, that won't fly. You thought you'd be clever and split an imaginary hair, rather than address the substance of my post...

There is already a homeland for the "Palestinians." It's Jordan.

[Valin]

DARN IT! Now I'm going to be forced to buy yet another book! Well I just hope you can live with yourself!

[Goblins]

The british aren't God by my reckoning. Now your homeland is tanganyka because I say so. I'll even write it on a little bit of paper if you want. So when are you going to you homeland?

[Valin]

Something the arab world in general and the Palestinians in particularly must understand is Israel is a fact, a great big 800lb gorrila fact of life. They aren't going away,no matter how much they want it to. 50yrs of war have got them what?< /retorical question> A good defination of insainity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Memo to the Palestinians, make peace !

[Francohio]

You know, that's a damn good point.

My answer to that question is that:

No One told them to. And, no one PAID them to.

[Valin]

Weather you like it or not the winners of a war set the rules. Britain was a winner of the war, turkey lost.

[Sabertooth]

The british aren't God by my reckoning. Now your homeland is tanganyka because I say so. I'll even write it on a little bit of paper if you want. So when are you going to you homeland?

Your reckoning isn't the excuse for your position, it's the problem with it.

How are boundaries drawn? How is territory claimed? Primarily, by the results of wars. One of the results of WWI was that the Turks were on the wrong side and lost. The British were on the right side and won. Both the Turks and the British have accepted this. As a result, Britain aquired temporary authority over Transjordan. Then they gave it away, 2/3 to Jordan, and 1/3 to Israel. Who got more? Learn some History.

Or, if not, lates take one of the logical consequences of your position: if the British decisions regarding the former Transjordan, are illegitimate, are you going to boot the Jordanians? You couldn't answer that before, and I'll bet you won't now, because you know it exposes the weakess of your position.

But, since you bring up God, to whom has He given the disputed territory?

[Magician]

There have been many massive refugee problems before, resulting from wars. At the end of WWII, the entire population of three provinces of Germany were made refugees by those territories being given to the Poles. There were Approximately six million of these German refugees at the time. No one in their right mind is suggesting that the Poles accept back into Poland all of these refugees and three generation of their progeny. The Palestinians' demand for the "right of return" is equally insane, and the Israelis will never accede to it either. If that demand remains part of the Palestinians agenda for a peace, then there never will be peace in the Middle East.

[Sabertooth]

If that demand remains part of the Palestinians agenda for a peace, then there never will be peace in the Middle East.

There is no Palestinian agenda for peace, except for the annihilation of Israel. Their bad faith is endemic.

Why should the Palestinians get a second homeland?

[Romulus]

Population expands as agriculture and technology develop to support it. A hundred years ago the Holy land was more primitive than it is today, but you may be sure that the land was occupied and exploited to the best ability of the people living there at the time. In future generations, technology may well support vastly denser population worldwide, the USA included. But I do not think you'd concede that the USA is currently " a Land virtually laid waste with little population".

[Magician]

The concept that the Palestinians (whoever they are) have an exclusive claim on the land died with the 1947 UN vote partitioning the the British Mandate into Jewish and Arab halves. You're singing your song in outer space where no one can hear it. Or wants to hear it.

[Sabertooth]

Population expands as agriculture and technology develop to support it. A hundred years ago the Holy land was more primitive than it is today, but you may be sure that the land was occupied and exploited to the best ability of the people living there at the time.

How does that follow? Aren't some farmers better than others? Do humans always function at the best of their abilities? I live in Los Angeles. We have very little agriculture here anymore. Yet our population is large and still growing. Much of what you say here is shaky. And irrelevant.

Did the land become more productive after the Jewish settlements became more numerous?

Yes.

Did scores of thousands of Arabs immigrate to the Holy Land from elsewhere in the Arab world?

Yes.

Do these people make up the bulk of the ancestral population for the so-called "Palestinians.

Also yes.

So are the ahistorical claims of the "Palestinans specious?

Bingo.

[ppaul]

.....Israel is a fact, a great big 800lb gorrila fact of life.

Yes. Seemingly so. But that applies when you are speaking about a person having a problem which seems like an 800-lb. gorilla. In this case, however, the Arab world is the 800 pound gorilla and Israel is a little ant. Look at the map for perspective. Israel is not the problem. The problem is a massive ethnic population, which occupies the vast land mass surrounding Israel, which suffers from a collective psychiatric anger management problem and which violently expresses its blind prejudice and bigotry toward a tiny minority.

[My2Cents]

Your editorial comment aside, would you like to refute the basic assertion that before the Zionist return of the Jews to what is now Israel, the land was virtually empty? The fact seems to be that as the Jews rebuilt the land, built a society with an economy, cultivated the land, built cities, Arabs finally took interest in "Palestine," and moved in to benefit from the wealth that the Jews were creating.

The point of the post is that "Palestinians" are not indigeous to the land. Would you like to refute that?

[Romulus]

I live in Los Angeles.

A hundred years ago, "a Land virtually laid waste with little population." It was just there for the taking, I suppose.

[weikel]

Don't listen to goblins he and Askel5 said they didn't like capitalism( by process of elimination that makes them COMMUNIST)