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Study: Neanderthals, Modern Humans Same Species
USA Today ^ | 12-26-2001 | Michael A. Stowe

Posted on 01/10/2002 5:42:43 AM PST by blam

Edited on 04/13/2004 1:38:56 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: blam
A 10-day, 16-thread bump.

2002

  1. (2002-01-01) Conservatives, Darwin & Design: An Exchange

  2. (2002-01-01) Design Yes, Intelligent No

  3. (2002-01-01) Intelligent Design As a Theory of Technological Evolution

  4. (2002-01-07) Genetic Marker Tells Squash Domestication Story

  5. (2002-01-07) SNPs as Windows on Evolution

  6. (2002-01-07) Supreme Court Won't Hear Case on Teaching Evolution

  7. (2002-01-07) Universe Of Life: Maybe Not, A

  8. (2002-01-07) What Every Theologian Should Know about Creation, Evolution, and Design

  9. (2002-01-08) Democratization of Science, The

  10. (2002-01-08) Progressive Creationism

  11. (2002-01-08) Universe Might Last Forever, Astronomers Say, but Life Might Not, The

  12. (2002-01-09) Life On Other Planets? Vatican Aide Ponders The Possibility

  13. (2002-01-09) Primordial Air May Have Been "Breathable"

  14. (2002-01-09) What Would Newton Do?

  15. (2002-01-10) New Theory on Big Bang

  16. (2002-01-10) Study: Neanderthals, Modern Humans Same Species


21 posted on 01/10/2002 8:32:12 AM PST by Junior
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To: jlogajan
If you can interbreed, you are considered in the same species.

Just this morning I read a claim in Arctic Dreams by Barry Lopez (highly recommended!) that polar bears and brown bears can in some cases produce viable offspring.

As for Neanderthals, the genetics suggest that they were separate species. Until the mitochondrial DNA data came in, they always were considered two varieties of homo sapiens. I don't see how comparative anatomy can trump that.

22 posted on 01/10/2002 8:33:16 AM PST by Physicist
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To: steve50
If you ever left a bar at closing time you would realize that there is no such thing as "unappealing female" to a homo sapien male.

I guess that explains why I can say that I've never gone to bed with an ugly woman.....but I sure woke up with a few!

23 posted on 01/10/2002 8:35:47 AM PST by oldsalt
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To: jlogajan
Although totally un-PC, todays "race" is but biology's "sub-species". Differentiating race/location definitional parameters and infrequent cross-breeding between/among races/sub-species is often all biologists need to name a "new" sub-species.

I suspect that during the ebbs and flows of 7(?) ice sheets since Raquel Welch's One Million Years B.C., early tribes were forced out and likely back into Europe, perfecting the human warrior genes and social organizations during these many migrations. Breeding then as now was probably for alliance, wealth, and dominance, as it is now. Maybe Neanderthals were the original blonds.

What has love got to do with it?

24 posted on 01/10/2002 8:36:47 AM PST by SevenDaysInMay
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To: jlogajan
If you can interbreed, you are considered in the same species.

Bison and domestic cattle can interbreed yet are not in the same species. Timberwolves and domestic dogs can interbreed - different species. Drake mallard ducks will attempt to breed with any female duck of any species - often successfully.

25 posted on 01/10/2002 8:39:58 AM PST by CholeraJoe
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To: bimbo
They are trying to advance the theory that humans interbred with Neanderthals--and the word "DNA" does not even appear in the article!

Their entire research apparently consists of measuring skulls, which people laughed at the Nazis about.

26 posted on 01/10/2002 8:49:05 AM PST by denydenydeny
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To: blam;nopardons;WhyisaTexasgirlinPA;LadyX;razorback-bert;Norb2569
When Oiler coach Bum Phillips was asked by Bob Costas why he took his wife on all road trips, Phillips responded:

"Because she was too damn ugly to kiss goodbye."

This is essentially what happened to the Neanderthals.
The men couldn't bear to kiss their wives good-by when they went on hunting forays, so they took them along.
Some sexually deprived Cro-Magnon males spotted them and used the grocery sacks they always carried to allow them to interbreed without regurgitating.

27 posted on 01/10/2002 9:02:41 AM PST by COB1
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To: jlogajan
The real determining factor is can they bring the resultant fetus to term? Sheep and goats, although distinct species, can successfully breed, with there being fertilization and development of an embryo, but the embryo will not survive.
28 posted on 01/10/2002 9:10:24 AM PST by Fury
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To: Bernard Marx, gumlegs, orfisher
Exactly. Has anyone done any archaeological research on turkey-basters?

**Humans have attempted to mate with ... watermelons.**

Indeed. How else to explain Marlon Brando?

You forgot interns.

I think they call this a 'target-rich environment'...

29 posted on 01/10/2002 9:13:00 AM PST by Interesting Times
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To: been_lurking
Are you an Ichthyophobe? I noticed you left fish completely off the list. :o)

Phobe? No, I'm not afraid of fish -- I just find them somewhat Ichthy.

30 posted on 01/10/2002 9:14:39 AM PST by Interesting Times
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To: Interesting Times
I just find them somewhat Ichthy.

Not all of them! Sounds like you need to bone up on fish.

31 posted on 01/10/2002 9:22:37 AM PST by Wm Bach
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To: Physicist
The study you refer to compared DNA from Neaderthals to DNA from Modern Homo sapiens. Until they perform a similar study on DNA from Neaderthals and DNA from Archaic Homo sapiens, the jury is still out. Even the DNA of Homo sapiens can be expected to change over a time frame of thousands of millenia.

I think this entire issue has been clouded by politically correct scientists not wanting to imply that "modern" Homo sapiens from Eurasia did not directly originate from Africa. In actuality, BOTH Neanderthal man and Homo sapiens originated in Africa, so this is really a non-issue.

If mammologists were viewing the skeletal remains of populations of hogs, deer, or any other taxa of mammals other than hominids, the apparent differences between Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis/H. s. neanderthalensis would hardly be considered adequate to separate the populations into two distinct species.

Take a Neanderthal, give him a bath and a shave, and put him in a business suit, and he wouldn't stand out in any major city on earth today.

32 posted on 01/10/2002 9:27:43 AM PST by ZULU
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To: COB1
Some sexually deprived Cro-Magnon males spotted them and used the grocery sacks they always carried to allow them to interbreed without regurgitating.

ROFLMAO!

33 posted on 01/10/2002 9:33:18 AM PST by Norb2569
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To: ZULU
Yes,it's "Twins," all over again. This time with Danny DeVito's build, and and Arnold Schwarznegger's strength.

By Der Vay, looking at Arnolt's prominent brow ridge, I vant to know eggsactly how far is dat Neanderthal (what did happen to the "H") Walley from Austria, Dude?

34 posted on 01/10/2002 9:39:41 AM PST by Francohio
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To: Fury; jlogajan
See also post #25

Mallard-Pintail hybrid

Mallard-Spotbill hybrid

Mallard-Gadwall hybrid


35 posted on 01/10/2002 9:43:53 AM PST by CholeraJoe
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To: HarryDunne
"Can anyone direct me to a good "Neanderthals for Dummies" or "Ancient Anthropology" site?"

A show, Neanderthals On Trial, will be on PBS the evening of 01-22-2002, don't know what time.

36 posted on 01/10/2002 11:03:15 AM PST by blam
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To: Junior
You actually read the article about squash domestication?
37 posted on 01/10/2002 11:21:27 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
I glanced at it and then added it to The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource. There have been a slew of crevo threads in the last week or so and I'm rushing to keep up with them all.
38 posted on 01/10/2002 11:27:19 AM PST by Junior
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To: blam
thanks
39 posted on 01/10/2002 11:54:25 AM PST by HarryDunne
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To: Gumlegs
Whenever it is said that modern humans and Neanderthals didn't interbreed, I think "these are guys, they'll sleep with anything".

Witness the "most intelligent president we've ever had"

40 posted on 01/10/2002 12:22:01 PM PST by glorgau
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