Zinni: I Never Called Arafat A Mafioso...

Jerusalem Post ^

[Lent]

True American Patriots

Oh yes, you are the acolytes of freedom. The secret society of truth, justice and the American way. What are the secret ceremonies for entrance? Does it include a burning cross and white garb?

[ObjetD'art]

any interaction which is part of foreign relations with Israel becomes "manipulate us"

So YOU say *I* say..

Any other freeper who wants to judge the true nature participation here on FR can do so by doing a google search.

[Lent]

Any other freeper who wants to judge the true nature participation here on FR can do so by doing a google search.

Shall we give you an award for your little dance there?

[ObjetD'art]

nature participation= nature of my participation

[ObjetD'art]

And you the dunce cap for your lies?

[CommiesOut]

Hm... maybe.
There is also an option of a dishonorable discharge if this little speculation is true:
More

[Lent]

And you the dunce cap for your lies? Oh, oh. Where's those guidelines for the hypocrite?

Hey. Objet. You worked for Allan Keyes didn't you? Shame on your hypocrisy. You must think Allan Keyes has dual loyalty and he's not a patriotic American. LOL. Take a look at his speech to the National Jewish Coalition:

Alan Keyes Speech to the National Jewish Coalition -- Nov. 28, 1995

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Alan Keyes: Principles Which Shape the Human Conscience for Justice

Transcript & online distribution
by Kristin R. Kazyak

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GARY POLARD: We now have the honor of hearing our third candidate for the office of president. I think we have an outstanding field for our presidential candidates as Republicans. It's a great honor for me today to be given the honor and responsibility to introduce to you Ambassador Alan Keyes. I think it can honestly be said that Alan Keyes has seen the worst the world has to offer. As a radio talk show host, as an educator, as an orator he has had the opportunity to talk with people from all over this great country and see the wealth of spirit, and courage, and compassion of the American people. And as well as that, he has seen the bad things.

As US Ambassador to the United Nations' Economic and Social Council and as an Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations he saw how terrible life is for people living without freedom, and how brutal and nasty things can get in the international arena. And sometimes we forget that even in today's world, that most of the world does not live in a free country.

Today he comes to us with a compelling message, that all Americans who care about the future of our country must hear. It's a message that's very important for us as Republicans and for us as Americans and for us as Jewish Americans.

It's a great honor for me today to introduce to you Ambassador Alan Keyes.

ALAN KEYES: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's a great pleasure to be here, and come up on stage -- you've got to know that I feel good when I come up on stage and the first face I see is Chuck Lichenstein's face! Hi Chuck! How are you? Reminder of my days at the United Nations when we were fighting the good fight against those tendencies and forces in the world that denigrate American policy and freedom and all of those other important values that we hold dear, or *profess* to hold dear.

It's interesting. We have them in our mouths all the time. I wonder sometimes how serious we are about them? I guess the test comes at critical moments when we're called upon to do something about it. Called upon to make judgements or accept responsibilities that will actually require that we meet sacrifices and bear what turns out to be sometimes the very difficult burden, of being a free people that can never deny its interest in maintaining and preserving that justice which is the foundation of human freedom.

And I think I can be pretty sure that I share with this audience a sense of how important that is. But there again, you know, I wonder sometimes. We don't always think things through. And that can create great problems. I used to think about this when I was at the United Nations in those times, particularly, when I was called upon, as I was frequently while I was there, to deal with what was an orchestrated hostility in the UN context toward America's relationship with Israel.

You know, Israel had, I imagine it still has, unhappily, some countries in the United Nations that don't care for it very much, and don't respect its existence, and they were, in the course of my tenure there -- they're very vocal and they do it everywhere. And you'd actually think it very odd, I was the Ambassador to the Economic and Social Council, and yet I would have to say that I spent 50-60-70 percent of my time dealing with political issues and dealing with issues like the US-Israeli relationship, our policy toward the Middle East, because in *every* environment out there in the UN, wherever I was -- could be a population conference, it could be an economic conference, could be anything in the world, they would bring up their criticisms of the US partnership with Israel.

And I don't know, maybe out of some peculiar judgements about my predilections, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, for whom I was working then, seemed to think it was good idea to send me out as the paladin to fight these battles. And so I ended up, quite often, going into these fora and dealing with these issues. And you know what I discovered, particularly in the course of those battles, and talking to Americans thereafter about why it was important that we maintain the US-Israeli partnership?

What I discovered was that at one level, it's not always an easy argument to sustain -- at one level -- and that is the level where people start dealing in purely material factors, and they talk about the geopolitics, what we have to gain, what we have to lose, who we have to please, where the oil is, where it comes from, how much it means to us, all of these kinds of geopolitical, and geo-economic, and strategic considerations.

And it occurred to me in the course of my time, dealing at great intensity with those issues that, you know, in the end, you can't sustain the argument in favor of a strong partnership with Israel on the basis of those considerations.

The world has an unwieldy way of changing, so that folks can actually believe that there might even be geo-strategic reasons why we should *abandon* the partnership. Folks in the State Department have a tendency to think this way, you know. They actually see our relationship with Israel as a pain in the neck -- as something that interferes with our ability to deal in friendly fashion with the more numerous countries of the Arab world, and I sometimes think that that affected their mind very greatly because being as how there were more Arab clients, the "go along to get along" attitude of the State Department meant that they were more interested in trying to smooth the relationships with those clients. And very often, the need to stand firmly in our relationship with Israel interfered with that......

http://www.sandh.com/keyes/njc.html

.

[absalom01]

Speaking in Washington, Zinni also compared him to a Mafia boss akin to New York Mafioso Carlo Gambino.

This is a vulgar slander against Carlo Gambino.

[Lent]

Hey Objet should we fashion a big hypocrite hat for you. Maybe I should write Allan and tell him you had a profound disagreement with his pro-Israel policy and that you consider him not an American firster and not a patriotic American. LOL! Allan again:

And in the end, when I used to go around talking about the US-Israeli relationship, THAT was the point I always used to stress most of all, because I think it is the MORAL identity between the United States and Israel that is most important.

[ObjetD'art]

Yes I had the privelage of working on Keyes2000. I enjoyed the time I worked with him and his people, some of whom I still count as my true friends. I have had no affiliation with the Keyes organization for years.

Other than that, I have my views.. he has his.. you have yours..

Nice try tho...

[ObjetD'art]

Hey Objet should we fashion a big hypocrite hat for you. Maybe I should write Allan and tell him you had a profound disagreement with his pro-Israel policy and that you consider him not an American firster and not a patriotic American. LOL! Allan again:

You are growing tiresome and I will respond to no more of your drivel this thread other than to enlighten you to the fact that I certainly disagree with Mr. Keyes on more than one issue!!

Goodnight all!

[Lent]

Hahahha. Keyes is not an "America firster" is he? He's not part of your holy acolyte group called the "True American Patriots". Of course to get into the inner sanctum of your pseudo-Patriotic group he'd have to shed his pro-Israel position. Wow, such an exclusive club you have there.

[BenF]

Scroll back dear, "Where are the Israel firsters" isnt calling an individual poster names duh! IF someone wants to step up and where that mantle, who am I to stop them?

Disassembling? You didn't ask a question, as you indicated above, you set a condition and said, "you guys are "Israel Firsters"." That's name calling. You were much more emphatic about rule-breaking on the other thread. But when it comes to your own posts, it seems you are much more liberal...what a surprise...

Have you missed me??

Not in the slightest.

Home situations have limited my FR participation time. You'll be seeing more of me now that things have settled down ;-)

While my religious convictions prevent me from wishing you ill or wishing that your home situation was negative, you add nothing positive to any thread in which you participate. But if I see more of you it will be no problem. I have exposed your dishonesty before and will be able to do so again with ease.

[Lent]

Hey, BenF what do you think of Objet the worker for Allan Keyes? Looks like she was betraying him. All the time she didn't think Allan was a "True Patriotic American". What was she in his campaign for? A mole for somebody else? Hmmmm.

[MACD]

these kinds of geopolitical, and geo-economic, and strategic considerations.

And it occurred to me in the course of my time, dealing at great intensity with those issues that, you know, in the end, you can't sustain the argument in favor of a strong partnership with Israel on the basis of those considerations

Then on what do we base this relationship Mr. Keyes?

[Lent]

Take a look at the paragraph later:

And in the end, when I used to go around talking about the US-Israeli relationship, THAT was the point I always used to stress most of all, because I think it is the MORAL identity between the United States and Israel that is most important.

In other words, Alan Keyes is a man of principle not just a money and oil man.

[ObjetD'art]

::yawn:: You are tiresome too, Benny baby.

I say: Where are the Israel firsters

Pissed Off Janitor says: we're over on the other thread

Lazarus Long says: Objet You terrorist-firsters you are one sick mf'er.

Ben says: Objet shall I call the moderator on you for breaking the rules about name-calling.

I see you havnt changed your style...

[MACD]

Moral Identity? Like in ethical, virtuous, righteous, noble? Are we still talking about Israel? If this is the only basis for our relationship with Israel, and I agree that it is, it's no better than saying we support Israel "just because"! We are the only country in the world that supports Israel -- what do we see here that appears to have been missed by the rest of the world. The whole world is wrong and we are right -- Hmmmmmm

[Lent]

Moral Identity? Like in ethical, virtuous, righteous, noble? Are we still talking about Israel? If this is the only basis for our relationship with Israel, and I agree that it is, it's no better than saying we support Israel "just because"! We are the only country in the world that supports Israel -- what do we see here that appears to have been missed by the rest of the world. The whole world is wrong and we are right -- Hmmmmmm

You seem to have missed the point of this post. It was intended for the poster above, a former Allan Keyes worker and anti-Israel poster. One might say that his principled moral argument is even more damaging to her assertions regarding patriotism since they rest on principles and beliefs for Keyes rather than anything else. Alas, though, she has distanced herself from his position on this issue and therefore has relegated Keyes to not being a patriotic American. Now, insofar as your point about the relationship being "missed" by the rest of the world. From Keyes perspective I'd think he'd answer you that he's not concerned about the majority of other countries but about principle. The European Union, the U.N., you be the judge of these cabals and their moral and geo-political claims. But I think you've overstated the point. In real terms the situation is not as stark as you assert. The problem is principally seen in the U.N. which he talks about. The U.N., with it's hijacked agenda by the Islamic countries is not going to be the basis upon which one should direct a foreign policy.

My own personal opinion is that Keyes is understating the geo-political and strategic reasons for support of Israel.