[helmsman]

Were there brutal tyrants who claimed to be Christians? Undoubtedly. Were they Christians in their hearts? Definitely not. And to state that Christianity has become a 'peaceful' religion only recently, is to be almost completely ignorant of history.

The Albigensian Crusade was a war against heretics. It existed soley because of the Church's insistence that all Christians follow it's theology! Who's ignorant of history?

And to say that those Christians of history that committed atrocities are "not really Christians," well I don't know what to say about that. Perhaps we should start insisting that abortionists are not "really" American? It would certainly make me feel better about my country. Who's argument is weak?

[Antoninus]

The Albigensian Crusade was a war against heretics. It existed soley because of the Church's insistence that all Christians follow it's theology! Who's ignorant of history?

Hardly. As with any conflicts of this kind, it's never as simple as that. The Albigensians weren't just peaceful heretics. They plundered the area around Toulouse and assassinated a papal legate. Such actions prompted the Crusade, which quickly deviated from its original religious goals into a political contest. The nobles who led the Crusade were more interested in adding to their political power than spreading the Gospel. Indeed, the Pope at the time, Innocent III, called for moderation and indeed, deplored the excesses carried out in the name of the Church.

And to say that those Christians of history that committed atrocities are "not really Christians," well I don't know what to say about that.

Try this on for size: "Hey, you're right."

Perhaps we should start insisting that abortionists are not "really" American? It would certainly make me feel better about my country.

Thank you for the sterling example of non sequitur. America is a nation, not a religion with clearly laid-out moral priciples. Apples and baseballs.