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Mosin Nagant Rifles: Can they be converted to .308 NATO?
4/9/02 | 7.63Broom

Posted on 04/09/2002 12:19:09 PM PDT by 7.63Broom

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To: Cpu
The bore size is different,

No,they are both 30 caliber.

the Ruskie is rimmed the NATO is rimless and the NATO pressure is WAY higher.

They are loaded to similiar pressure levels. The 762x54R is actually between the 762 Nato and the old 30/06 is power. The NATO round is a 762x51,and IF I remember correctly,the 30/06 is a 7.62x63.

Having said all this,why bother? It's really not worth the expense,especially when there is plenty of 762x54R ammo around,and it is slightly more powerful than the 7.62 NATO to begin with.

If you absolutly,positively have to have a .308 Winchester rifle,buy a Savage bolt action with the heavy barrell. Do NOT buy one of the converted M95 or M96 Mausers with only 2 locking lugs. The old 7X57 Mauser round they were made for IS loaded to a much lower pressure than current 7.62 NATO ammo,and the rifles are unsafe when altered.

41 posted on 04/09/2002 4:03:27 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Other possible items are .308 Reconditioned Enfield Jungle Carbines by Gibbs Rifle Co.

Do NOT do this! SMLE's only have one locking lug at the rear,and are NOT safe to convert over to higher pressure cartridges,and I don't give a damn WHO tells you they are.

and getting a 1903 Springfield (30-06) from the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

Good luck,there! If you do happen to get a 03A3 from CMP,do NOT covert it over! You can probably sell it as is to a collector for enough to buy a new Savage.

The easiest and cheapest military rifle to convert over to 308 is the old 7.7 Japanese Arisaka. Same case head diameter,and same bolt face dimensions. You don't even need to modify the feed rails or the magazine. About all you need is a surplus Springfield barrell to thread and chamber. Good luck finding one today,though. They are also getting pretty scarce and pricey now. If you have to pay somebody else to thread and chamber the barrell,it would be cheaper to go ahead and buy a new Savage and be done with it. It just doesn't pay to modify surplus military rifles anymore.

42 posted on 04/09/2002 4:10:33 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: STD
Poor steel, poor action and a good wall hanger

Damn fine steel,and a strong action,even if it isn't all that attractive. Many of these things were even made by Winchester before and during WW-2,and I THINK a bunch of them were made by Remington during WW-1. Never heard of one blowing up.

43 posted on 04/09/2002 4:13:30 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: CWRWinger
My two Finn M-39s are sweet shooters, money well spent IMHO.
44 posted on 04/09/2002 4:14:20 PM PDT by junta
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To: Tijeras_Slim
In the 50's under NATO, some Enfields were manufactured with higher strength steel in .308 (7.62x51) same caliber as the M-14.

It doesn't matter. Like all SMLE's,it still only has the one locking lug at the rear,which means there is no margin for error. If they one lug breaks,you end up with a new eye accessory,a rifle bolt. LOTS bigger than the trendiest ear rings,and a fashion accessory I don't think will really catch on.

45 posted on 04/09/2002 4:17:56 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: dd5339
I've been chewing over building a rifle around the new 300 WSM necked down to 6.5 mm.

Winchester did something similiar years ago,when they chambered Model 70's in .264 Winchester Magnum. Throat erosion and barrel wear was a problem,as this created severe overbore. Some antelope hunters out west swore by it,though.

46 posted on 04/09/2002 4:21:22 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
---The bore size is different
----No,they are both 30 caliber.

Nominally true, but the NATO bullet is .308 dia and the Ruski is .311 ala the .303 Brit.

------the Ruskie is rimmed the NATO is rimless and the NATO pressure is WAY higher.
--------They are loaded to similiar pressure levels. The 762x54R is actually between the 762 Nato and the old 30/06 is power. The NATO round is a 762x51,and IF I remember correctly,the 30/06 is a 7.62x63.

Bull. SAAMI pressure in the 7.62mm is 51K. The "x63/54/63" is the case length, it has nothing to do with chamber pressure.

---------Having said all this,why bother? It's really not worth the expense,especially when there is plenty of 762x54R ammo around,and it is slightly more powerful than the 7.62 NATO to begin with. If you absolutly,positively have to have a .308 Winchester rifle,buy a Savage bolt action with the heavy barrell.

This is not my project. I agree that its a bad idea and that the Savage is a nice rifle. I was not the original poster

cpu
47 posted on 04/09/2002 4:21:48 PM PDT by Cpu
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To: junta
I have a C&R FFL and I need to find one of those M-39's. They are definitely sturdy guns and I keep hearing about how accurate they are. I was able to hand pick (2) M44's from a lot of (40). I have never seen that many M-39's in one place yet. I'm picky, all the serial numbers have to match, bluing has to be very good or better and the furniture can't be messed up. (You've got me thinkin' though)
48 posted on 04/09/2002 4:51:07 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: sneakypete
So you would advocate rechambering for 308?
49 posted on 04/09/2002 4:53:42 PM PDT by STD
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To: CWRWinger
Try Empire Arms Dennis Kroh seems to have the pick of the litter from the importers. One of mine is an antique from the Chatterault armory in France 1894 vintage not a looker but a shooter, my other one is a non-descript Russkie Tula I think but don't hold me to it it too is "used" but a fine shooter. Check out Tucos since you have a C&R I'll bet you know about mosin.net, but if you don't the folks on that message board know their Mosin-Nagants. I have four Mosins but of them all I like the M-39s the best by far, they are a real battle rifle.
50 posted on 04/09/2002 5:00:47 PM PDT by junta
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To: junta
Yes, I'm an avid reader of the Mosin forum. They have explained this gun to me very well. Thanks for the information on Empire.
51 posted on 04/09/2002 5:15:16 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: Cpu
Bull. SAAMI pressure in the 7.62mm is 51K.

So what? The chamber pressure in the 7.62x54R is similiar. I don't have my Hatcher's Notebook or Cartridges of the World handy right now,but the best I can remember,all the various 30-32 cal military loads were loaded to similiar pressures.

The "x63/54/63" is the case length, it has nothing to do with chamber pressure.

Well,Duhhhhh!

52 posted on 04/09/2002 5:16:40 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: STD
So you would advocate rechambering for 308?

No. Not a chance this is economically feasable. Even if you could do all the work yourself and owned the chamber reamers and lathe,it would be tough to do it for what you could just buy a whole brand new 308 Savage for. Let's not forget that simply changing and rechambering the barrell isn't the end of it. You now have a barrelled action that no longer fits the stock you have for it. This means you either have to scratch-build a new stock from a blank,or buy a semi-inletted stock from someplace like Bishop,and then inlet and finish it yourself. What you your trigger? Are you still going to be satisfied with that old heavy "2-stage" military trigger and safety? Oh,did I mention sling swivels and a sling for your new stock? You will also still need to either install iron sights or drill and tap for scope mount. Do YOU have a jig that fits Nagant receivers? Know anybody that does? Yeah,I know.I've drilled and tapped receivers by hand,too. Back when I was younger,had better eyesight,and my hands were steadier. AND back when I didn't have any better sense.

If you have a original Nagant good for shooting as is,keep shooting it as is. If nothing but a 308 Win will satisfy you,buy a new rifle. You will be glad you did.

53 posted on 04/09/2002 5:24:46 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: STD
The Nagant will handle .30-06 chamber pressures. 48,000 lbs and below. The .308 produces up to 52,000- safely in rifles designed for it.

So I would skip that one

The .303 Brit is only rated at 42,000, so I would never consider anything with any higher pressure than that.

I am not saying that the rifle will not hold together, or that the steel is bad,etc.

I am saying that it is an extremely bad idea to chamber a rifle for a cartridge with greater pressure than it was designed for, with a few notable exceptions.

You only have one face.

54 posted on 04/09/2002 5:29:13 PM PDT by Living Stone
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To: dd5339
The 6.5-08 has pretty much taken over in the match rifle category in NRA Highpower competition. With the 140gr Sierra it outclasses the .308 at 600yds and it can be loaded with lighter bullets for the offhand and sitting rapid at 200yds. I believe this wildcat has now been de-wildcatted as the .260 Rem or something. It's not a great barrel burner like some larger-cased rounds.

For long range competition (besides Palma) the 6.5-.284 wildcat still reigns supreme.

55 posted on 04/09/2002 5:29:32 PM PDT by SBprone
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To: Living Stone
Oops,

I meant to say the Enfields chambered for the Brit .303, just to clarify a bit.

56 posted on 04/09/2002 5:35:45 PM PDT by Living Stone
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To: sneakypete
---SAAMI pressure in the 7.62mm is 51K.

-----So what? The chamber pressure in the 7.62x54R is similiar. I don't have my Hatcher's Notebook or Cartridges of the World handy right now,but the best I can remember,all the various 30-32 cal military loads were loaded to similiar pressures.

The Nato round is loaded to higher pressures than the '06. No commercial ammunition for the Russian is loaded anywhere near 51,000. Far too many 90 some year old rifles out there. The 8mm Mauser used to be a .30-06 equivalent. Now its closer to a .30-30. Handloaders can of course load what they wish (I do). Hatcher's (excellent) book was written in the 50's.

cpu
57 posted on 04/09/2002 7:40:58 PM PDT by Cpu
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To: 7.63Broom
P.S. Check out Southern Ohio Guns for some K98 Mausers that have been converted to .308 by Israel. They need work, but are a great deal at about $100. Also there are some Spanish Mausers that have been converted to .308 floating around.

If you want an accurate bolt gun in the $350-$400 range, look at the Savage Model 110(?).

58 posted on 04/09/2002 8:44:11 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: dd5339
What is the loa and headspace for a 300WSM? Is it basically a shortened 300 WM? How much shorter? I have been trying to find something on this cartridge to no avail.
59 posted on 04/09/2002 8:50:20 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: WALLACE212
"They are a bit hard to find though."

I have one that I took apart to degrease. I just have to finish the degreasing and figure out where all of those little parts go.

60 posted on 04/09/2002 8:57:20 PM PDT by Don Myers
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