Machiavelli - Quotes Justify the Man

Personal Archives | 04-22-02 | PsyOP

[PsyOp]

Probably the most misunderstood, maligned, and yet astute political observers of all time.

[PsyOp]

Let the games Begin!

[austinTparty]

Figured you'd already be pinged... but jes' in case... :-)

[austinTparty]

Figured you'd already be pinged... but jes' in case... :-)

[PsyOp]

Here's some more quotes you may enjoy.

[SR71A]

Thanks for posting this...BTTT

[TopQuark]

Contessa, on this thread we invoke Niccolo's name in vain....

I thought you should know.

[2Trievers]

Ah, one of my faves, Niccoló Machiavelli.

A master of Machiavellian power was Henry Kissinger. Kissinger managed to survive the many bloodlettings that went on the Nixon White House not because he was the best diplomat ... there were other fine negotiators ... and not because the two men got along so well ... they didn't. Nor did they entirely share their beliefs and politics, Kissinger survived because he entrenched himself in so many areas of the political structure that to do away with him would lead to chaos. Power like Michaelangelo's was intensive, depending on one skill, his ability as an artist ... Kissinger's was extensive. He got himself involved in so many aspects and departments of the admin that his involvement became an ace card in his hand. It also made him many allies. Machiavelli would be proud! &;-)

[nicollo]

Thanks for the reminder of my mispelled name...

Niccoló!

**Bumpin'' THE MAN**

ATP: did you read "Machiavelli in Hell" yet?

[PsyOp]

Yup. Kissenger was a survivor and master politico. I'm sure Machiavelli was but one of the strategic masters on his shelf. I'm sure we would alsohave found the likes of Sun Tzu, Clauswitz, Musashi, Jomini and others. But few could cut through the BS like 'Ol Nick!

[PsyOp]

I'm curious, why do you say Nicolló's name is invoked in vain? What am I missing?

[TopQuark]

Nicolló's name is invoked in vain? What am I missing? Nothing at all: it was a bit of an inside joke, hinting that Contessa must have secured all rights to his name. But then she spells the name with one "l."

Sorry, I did not mean to make it confusing.

Thanks, PsyOp, for all the quotations you have supplied. The collective IQ of the FR has gone up a few points.

[nicollo]

Probably the most misunderstood, maligned, and yet astute political observers of all time.

This was so in his day, too.

"Astute" is too mild. The problem with Machiavelli is not that he has been misunderstood but that he has been selectively abused. He was fundamentally a believer in first principles. My all-time fave Niccolo quotations are (some listed above, different translation):

May princes know then that they begin to lose [their] state at that hour in which they being to break the laws and those customs and usages that are ancient and under which men have lived for a long time.

a perfect republic... that will run the whole course ordained by heaven.

... in all cities and in all peoples there are the same desires and the same humors, and the same as they always were. So it is an easy thing for whoever examines past things to foresee future [things] in each republic and to take those remedies that were used by the ancients, or not finding any used, to think up new ones based on the similitude of events

What I draw from Machiavelli is the following:

- all human affairs are politics;
- history is alive.

Machiavelli walked with the ancients as we must walk with him today. The American Founders understood this. Machiavelli was an American of 1789, just as America is Rome. This is the core of my political beliefs. I learned it from Machiavelli.

(and, he liked the girlies, too...)

[contessa machiaveli]

(and my misspelled name) nicollo you have the extra "l".

[PsyOp]

I figured it must have been something like that, but I wanted to be sure. Glad you are enjoying the posts. Since I don't care to surf other sites for news to post here, and I got to feeling guilty about just lurking and sniping all the time, I thought I'd make my contribution with these.

[TopQuark]

Machiavelli was an American of 1789, just as America is Rome. That is a puzzling sentence, to say the least.

Do you use it to break the ice with the girls? Does it work as an opening line?

[nicollo]

And I'm missing a "c," too. Click on me for details.

[PsyOp]

You're right. His biggest problem was than when he published The Prince, written after the discourses but published before them, his analysis were so clear that they pointed out the sever hypocrisy in the government he meant to help with it. He has been paying for that ever since.

After reading the Prince, I decided to sit down and read the Discourses (all three tomes). I thought that I would have to struggle through them, but found them a very easy read in spite of their length. I have also read his version of the Art of War, but have not gotten around to extracting the quotes from it.

Even though he wrote over four hundred years ago, you can apply most everything he says to present day politics without having to account for time and place or context, which is remarkable.

[TopQuark]

Now you can see the confirmation of what I said earlier: Contessa does not even reply to me --- ever since we quarreled at the the de Midici's ball, right after Nicolo came back to Florence.

[Cacique]

My favorite dictum of Machiavelli's which cannot be repeated often enough.

"You cannot deal with people as you wish them to be, you must deal with them as they really are."