Machiavelli - Quotes Justify the Man

Personal Archives | 04-22-02 | PsyOP

[nicollo]

My: Machiavelli was an American of 1789, just as America is Rome.
Your: That is a puzzling sentence, to say the least. Do you use it to break the ice with the girls? Does it work as an opening line?

Good suggestion. I'll let you know if it ever works.

When you next visit Washington, D.C., check out the buildings of substance in town, the Capitol, the White House, the Washington Monument, etc.

You will note a theme to the architecture: hommage to the ancients. The Founders constantly looked back upon the Romans and the Greeks for justification and reason. Those buildings I mention are meant to display the American resuscitation of the greatest civilizations ever. We are they, here and now.

Another thing you will note in classic DC architecture is that memorials, statues, and freizes frequently display allegorical figures of liberty, freedom, or America on top of globes, such as "Freedom" who bestrides the Capitol building. The reference was literal. My favorite is the freize above the old House chamber, with the figure, "history," riding a chariot across a globe.

We are Rome.

I only know this because Machiavelli taught it to me.

[PsyOp]

Contessa does not even reply to me --- ever since we quarreled...

"Men’s [or Contessa's] hatreds generally spring from fear or envy." - Niccoló Machiavelli, The Discourses. 1517.

Don't let it get you down. Nick understands.

[nicollo]

nicollo you have the extra "l".

Oops -- I just now got it -- LOL!
(or is that, "lolL"?

[TopQuark]

We are Rome. With all due respect, there is a long way between Roman themes in architecture and the identification of this Republic with Rome. I only know this because Machiavelli taught it to me. You must be really getting up in age...

[rdb3]

Those... who had held their possessions for many years must not accuse fortune for having lost them, but rather their own remissness; for having never in quiet times considered that things might change (as it is a common fault of men not to reckon on storms in fair weather) when adverse times came, they only thought of fleeing, instead of defending themselves.

I believe that this statement near-perfectly describes the GOP right after the elections in '94.

[sleavelessinseattle]

If you can't find something here that applies to your day, you have been abducted by aliens!

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

When you disarm [the people] you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred against you. - Niccoló Machiavelli, The Prince. 1537.

NRA Bump.

[nicollo]

No respect required. If you think architecture does not reflect political philosophy, try walking down Main St., Moscow, c. 1974. Or Washington, D.C., c. 1974. The triumph of 20th Century humanism was certified in ugly, functional buildings.

Those who originally built Washington (or kept to the original themes) believed in the political meaning of the institutions the buildings were meant to house. We didn't build a great mansion for the President. We built a great mansion for the people. Same with the Capitol. Those buildings were to reflect the great purpose and historical significance of their occupants and all they represented. For the architectural inspiration -- that same inspiration which guided the American founding itself-- we looked to the ancients.

Atop the Supreme Court building (constructed during the Great Depression!) are Roman figures. Why?

(Hint: it wasn't decorative.)

Re-read Machiavelli. He wrote history that looked forward. Amazing.

[SJackson]

If you can't find something here that applies to your day, you have been abducted by aliens!

You knew?

[TopQuark]

If you think architecture does not reflect political philosophy, Oh,. It most certainly does: I was merely against equating the two.

Your take on the relationship between them is very perceptive, and exquisite in its subtlety. This also applies to your reading of Machiavelli.

He wrote history that looked forward. This is beautifully stated, and I wholeheartedly agree.

[nicollo]

Forgive a misstatement in my #28: of course architectural adornment is decorative in function -- just as poems need words that rhyme. The question remains, what is the decorative theme? (Including the choice of none, aka modern architecture).

Anyway, try out DC buildings some time. You'll be stunned. What people need to remember is that our country is from the beginning purposeful. It's when we lose purpose and instead look to method that we are lost. Here's an example: welfare as a purpose is that no one starve. Welfare as a method is where people use welfare. I see the same in our buildings, one way or another.

[PsyOp]

NRA bump

"However strong your armies may be, you will always need the favour of the inhabitants to take possession of a province." - Niccoló Machiavelli, The Prince. 1537.

[conserve-it]

"When you disarm [the people] you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred against you. - Niccoló Machiavelli, The Prince. 1537. NRA Bump."

One of the most profound statements ever made.

[lockeliberty]

What people need to remember is that our country is from the beginning purposeful.

The Postmodernist, Foucault or Jameson, would say that these buildings were meant to oppress the people, that they are nothing but silly teleological histography. If they had their way we would tear down all those white men.

[nicollo]

Thanks for your hard work to put up this thread. It's fantastic.

You are a brave soul. If it's any reward, thanks!

[sleavelessinseattle]

How did you get this photo of former Labor Secretary Robert Reich's Retirement Barbecue?

[nicollo]

"teleological histography *bump*

lol!

[PsyOp]

Your thanks are all the reward I need. Although, on going back through the quotes, I noticed a few html codes that I screwed up. That's what I get for trying to do this long after I should be in bed.

[SJackson]

You weren't invited? I was sure we met there. If that's not you on the left, could it be, Al Gore, or Art Bell. What a ticket.

[Nix 2]

Thank you much, sleaveless. This is a keeper. Been reading this kind of stuff since early kidhood.
Machiavelli is one of those gifted few who bind the ages and encompass them all.

And in keeping....
NOTHING can disarm a man except that he BELIEVE it.
Me

JPFO/NRA BUMP!!!