The case for Jews giving Christmas Gifts

dougshaw.com ^ | 11/29/02 | Douglas Shaw

[paltz]

DOUG: I've figured out what I want for Christmas
MOM: You mean what you want for Hanukkah
DOUG: Let's not have this argument again, Ma
MOM: All right. What would you like?

DOUG: A mezuzah

I'm a Jew in his thirties who doesn't give "Hanukkah Presents". I give Christmas Presents. In exactly 8 paragraphs, I am going to use the phrase "ignorant, spineless, and evil" to describe the practice of giving “Hanukkah Presents". If you are a gentile, you shouldn't take offense at this statement. Nobody (well, no reasonable person) expects you to be an expert on Jewish laws or customs. In my opinion, there is no shame in being "ignorant" about the details of somebody else's religion. We can't all be experts on everything. I think you will find the essay interesting. If you are a Jew, you may take offense at the statement. Well, perhaps you should.

To start with, we ask: What is Hanukkah celebrating, anyway? For a holiday with this much press, you would think the answer is common knowledge. For example, everybody knows that Easter is celebrating the Resurrection of Christ, that New Year's Eve is celebrating the beginning of a New Year, and that Christmas is celebrating the appropriation of the Pagan solstice by the Catholic Church after they were unsuccessful at canceling the annual Pagan celebration, laying the idea of Christ's birthday on top of the existing holiday even though they knew that, according to the New Testament, Jesus was born in the Summer, not in December.

Surprisingly, if you ask most people what Hanukkah is about, they say it is celebrating the fact that an oil lamp burned for 8 days when it should have burned only 1 day. That is equivalent to someone saying that Thanksgiving is celebrating the fact that we get to eat Turkey, or that Memorial day is celebrating a day off of school and the Jerry Lewis telethon. The oil-lamp miracle is only one of the trappings; it is not what the holiday is about. (This seems like a good time to quote a great Saturday Night live sketch. The whole cast is gathered around an oil lamp, dressed as ancient Jews)

JOHN BELUSHI: Wow, the lamp has burned 8 days.
GARRETT MORRIS: This is really starting to look like a miracle.
DAN ACKROYD: We should make a holiday based on it.
GARRETT MORRIS: What should we call it?
JOHN BELUSHI: Hey, why don't you come up with a name, Hanukkah?

Here's the story of Hanukkah in a nutshell: The Jews were living just fine and happy in Palestine, their ancient homeland. The Greeks took over, and said, "You have to act like Greeks now, not like Jews." The Jews said, "2 - 4 - 6 - 8 we will not assimilate." The Greeks tried to make them. At one point, a woman named Hannah was taken with her five sons. The Greek commandant said to the oldest son, "Look! This 'other' white meat is called 'pork'. We Greeks eat it all the time. Have some." "No" said the oldest son, and he was killed. This happened to the second, third and fourth sons. Son number 5 was only a child, about your age. (No matter how old I was, Grandma said he was about my age. If she were telling me the story today, I bet Hannah's youngest son would be in his thirties.) The Greek commander tried to get him to eat the ham, and he wouldn't. He didn't want to kill the last son, so he told Hannah, "Talk some sense into the boy." She said, "Don't you DARE eat that." The child refused, and was killed, as was his mother.

THAT is what Hanukkah is about.

The tale of Hannah and her sons galvanized the Jewish people. The great general Judah took some guerilla troops, and began striking at the Greeks, then retreating before they knew what hit them. His troops were called the Macabees, because they struck hard as a hammer, and then drew back. Eventually, the Greeks said, "To heck with this. Let's go whomp on someone else." and they left Palestine. The Jews rededicated all their desecrated temples, and relit the Eternal flame. There only was one tin of sacred oil left, but it lasted (by a miracle) eight days, long enough for the Jews to get more.

Hanukkah is not about the oil lamp. Hanukkah is celebrating the fact that Jews are not like gentiles, and cannot be forced to assimilate. Now, if you didn't like this story or its message, then by all means, don't celebrate Hanukkah. You don't have to celebrate it to be Jewish; in fact it is a minor holiday. Passover, Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Purim and Sukkoth are all more important holidays. As a Jewish male who doesn't wear a Yarmulke, who eats cheeseburgers, chicken cordon bleu and pork chops, and who paid retail for his television set, it seems odd for me to celebrate a holiday that is all about staying apart from the dominant culture. (I do light the menorah occasionally, because I like to.)

Do I give "Hanukkah presents?" Of course not! Why? Because "Hanukkah presents" are an ignorant, spineless evil practice, as I will discuss below. I have nothing against giving gifts. I enjoy giving gifts. I love receiving them, too. One of my happiest memories was a time when a whole bunch of my college friends had a reunion in Urbana, and we all exchanged presents. Don't you dare accuse me of being against materialism - I have a laser-scanner, four Lava-lites and a Space Ghost action figure, and that's just in my office.

"Hanukkah presents" are ignorant. They are not part of the holiday. There are many pretty little traditions that come with this minor holiday that do not involve buying Pokemon cards. For example, it is customary to play a gambling (Yes! Teaching kiddies to gamble!) game called "dreidel." Everybody antes, and then you spin a top, and put in the pot or take out of the pot, depending on what side of the dreidel shows. Since we don't want children to gamble for real money, we give them some candy to put in the pot. Or Hanukkah Gelt, which is coins made out of chocolate. So, yes, kids do get toy dreidels and chocolate coins and such, but that is not the same thing as a Nintendo 256 game system, wrapped up in paper that is any-color-but-red-and-green-because-that-would-be-Christmassy. If you are a gentile and you thought that "Hanukkah Presents" were part of the holiday, I don't blame you; the media certainly portray it that way. Now you know better. If you are a Jew and thought that, then you should be ashamed of yourself.

"Hanukkah presents" are spineless. Seriously, why do you think that Jews give their loved ones "Hanukkah Presents"? Because they like to give gifts? If that was the reason, then they would be given on Rosh Hashanah (The very important Jewish New Year), or Sukkoth (A very beautiful major Jewish holiday) or Purim (A very festive major Jewish Holiday). No. They are given on the holiday closest to Christmas. Why? Because we want to be like the gentiles.

Picture this: You are a Jewish mom, it is the end of December, your child's friends get presents, and you don't want to be a meany. But you can't give a Christmas Present! What would your grandmother say? So you give a "Hanukkah Present," rationalizing it to yourself. Shame! You're too weak not to give presents, and you're too gutless to admit that you're doing it because the Christians are doing it. How can anybody be this way and have self-respect? As I said earlier, I give Christmas presents. I am secure enough to admit to myself and others that I am bending to my society, and taking on a Christian tradition. I know people who don't (for one reason or another) participate in end of year gift-giving at all. That takes a different kind of strength, and I respect that. But to give Christmas presents, pathetically calling them "Hanukkah Presents" reminds me of a sniveling sidekick in a bad adventure movie. Grow up.

"Hanukkah Presents" are evil. Now, I'm not the kind of person who uses the epithet "evil" lightly. Well, that's not true. I use it pretty often. But THIS time I mean it. Here's why: Hanukkah is about being brave, and refusing to be forced to be like the gentiles. And what are "Hanukkah Presents" about? About knuckling under and being exactly like the Christians. And don't go rationalizing. You know it is true. If it weren't for the Christians inventing that Dec. 25th holiday so they could be more like the Pagans, we Jews would never go out "Hanukkah shopping" to buy "Hanukkah Presents" and "Hanukkah cards" in malls where there are huge lines to sit on Santa's lap. I'm sure it is killing mall-owners that Jewish parents aren't standing in line to buy 5 x 7 glossies of their kids sitting on someone's lap; but within our lifetimes I'm sure that there will be a line for "Hanukkah Harry" photographs. (Mark my words: As soon as Jon Lovitz gives up on his acting career, he will be appearing at Macy's in a fake beard) As I've said, I have nothing against assimilation per se. But celebrating the "Jews would rather die than assimilate" holiday by imitating Christians is just ethically abhorrent. It's like going out to supper to celebrate Yom Kippur.  The Greek commander made a mistake: Rather than threatening Hannah's brave sons, he should have shown them commercials for a Sausage McMuffin or a Burger King Yumbo and seen if Hannah shrugged and bought them Yumbo meals to get the free plastic Judah action figure.

I posted a draft of this essay on soc.culture.jewish, and someone began a reply with the clause: "If a person finds it necessary to buy Hanukkah Presents…" He should have been ashamed. It is necessary to eat. It is necessary to have shelter. It is necessary to add a constant if you are doing an indefinite integral in Calculus. It is not NECESSARY to exchange gifts. If you exchange gifts, you are doing it by choice, so admit it. And, since you are exchanging gifts in December because of Christmas, than admit that too.

Now, what if you are a Christian, and you have Jewish friends? Should you give them Christmas gifts? Hanukkah gifts? Jeez, I don't know. I'd hate to be you. What I would do is ask, "Do you mind a Christmas gift this year, or would you prefer a Hanukkah gift?" If they are ambivalent, then give them the Christmas gift. If they insist on a Hanukkah gift then return the expensive sweater, buy a pretty dreidel and some nice chocolate coins, and deliver them along with some sizzling latkes.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Some good points in this article. I will discuss them with my Jewish wife....after she lights the first candle tonite.

Baruch Atoh Ado-noy...

[arielb]

Chanukah Gelt isn't "chocolate coins"-it's real money and an ancient custom that is observed even by Yemenite Jews who had nothing to do with the Christian world. So give your kids money and teach them how to use it wisely and hopefully they won't buy that Nintendo.

Actually I just found out while writing this post that Yemenite kids get other little presents on Chanukah too.

[stands2reason]

If it weren't for the Christians inventing that Dec. 25th holiday so they could be more like the Pagans, we Jews would never go out "Hanukkah shopping" to buy "Hanukkah Presents" and "Hanukkah cards" in malls where there are huge lines to sit on Santa's lap.

Good line. Though, I'm neither Jewish or Christian, yes, I will buy Christmas presents for my family.

[TopQuark]

What a confused teenager in the body of a 30-year-old...

[Mr. Mojo]

The Greek commander tried to get him [Hannah's youngest son] to eat the ham

What a surprise! ....Another Greek homo.

[mitchbert]

As a Jewish male who doesn't wear a Yarmulke, who eats cheeseburgers, chicken cordon bleu and pork chops

But when it comes to Hannukah presents he can't deal with a deviation from the customs. Meshuggah. My rabbi didn't have an issue with it when I was young, so neither do I.

Happy Hannukah, everyone, and if I don't catch you before, a Merry Christmas too (Hope he doesn't read this...I'm saying the "MC" phrase. No doubt he'll have an aneurysm).

[Cinnamon Girl]

Dear Douglas Shaw:

Please stop celebrating your ignorance and get yourself to an Orthodox rabbi who can help you learn the laws of kashrut and observing the Sabbath. If you are Jewish, be Jewish.

Good Shabbos.

[Romulus]

Christmas is celebrating the appropriation of the Pagan solstice by the Catholic Church

A nice slur from one of our "older brothers". Here's hoping he comes to learn one day that God created the Jews for his own purposes, namely as an instrument for the word's salvation -- not to legitimize the god of tribal triumphalism.

[another cricket]

Christmas is celebrating the appropriation of the Pagan solstice by the Catholic Church after they were unsuccessful at canceling the annual Pagan celebration,

However before the Catholic Church was in any position to give orders to Roman society on anything Christians celebrated Christ's birth at the Pagan solstice. Why? Because it was one of the very few holidays that slaves and the poor had off. Many early Christian were either slaves or poor and sometimes both. Same with Easter. As there is nothing in scripture that says you should celebrate them at a certain time of the year (in fact nothing that says that you should celebrate them at all) they picked a day when they could slip away to a big time service without attracting attention.

a.cricket

[Torie]

I kind of liked the piece. Of course, I am a near atheist WASP, and Christmas is about pagan rituals to me, so I am basically out of the loop. In any event, what exactly about it bothers you?

[sfwarrior]

Lemme see, a JINO ( Jew In Name Only) doesn't keep kosher or wear a Yarmulke is concenred about others assimilating. Sounds like a Democrat to me.

[Torie]

If you don't keep kosher, you are a JINO? Just curious. As I say, I am not swimming in my pond here, so I have no fixed opinions.

[tiki]

So is his characterization of the story of Hannukah true? I thought it was a man and his family who refused to bow to the Greeks?

[Caipirabob]

Personally, I have grown to appreciate any holiday that doesn't involve strapping a bomb to oneself and detonating it. Christians and Jews don't seem to have any holidays matching the above description. Several do involve archaic mass consumption orgies resulting in undue gastrointestinal distress, but this isn't the same thing. May they enjoy them in peace.

[valkyrieanne]

Yes, the wahhabi morons have given us a better perspective, haven't they?

[KC_for_Freedom]

Thanks for a Shabat and a Hannukah story for my family. Happy holidays (all of them)

[paltz]

Indeed...enjoy. I'm on a web search for the internet version of a essay by Dennis Prager regarding his views on Jewish Liberals and the Christmas Holidays. He talks about it in his book. It's very insightful as usual.

[maestro]

Hanukkak is Christmas!

Christmas is Hanukkah!

Same 'Light' of Jesus!

[sfwarrior]

This story from the Temple Emanuel website, is quite different than this poster's version:

THE STORY OF HANUKAH
In 168 B.C.E., the Jews of Judea were ruled by a Syrian king named Antiochus. Antiochus and his soldiers were hellenized Syrians. More than 150 years before the Maccabees, Alexander the Great had conquered all the Near East. He and his successors influenced the culture of these conquered lands. This meant they shared, sometimes forcefully, their Greek habits, customs and beliefs. That is why the "enemies" in the retelling of the Hanukah story are sometimes called Syrians, sometimes called Greeks and sometimes called Syrian/Greeks.

Antiochus wanted to hellenize Judea. His soldiers desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem and he decreed that Judaism was abolished. Antiochus demanded that the Jewish people now worship Greek gods and sacrifice pigs. There were some Jews who wanted to hellenize and accept Greek ways, and other Jews who did not. One historian has suggested that the Maccabean revolt began as a civil war between these two factions.

The Syrian soldiers set up altars to the Greek gods throughout Judea. Slowly, a resistance movement began to grow, led by a priestly family known as the Hasmoneans or Maccabees. The head of the family was Matityahu (Mattithias). He and his five sons Judah, Yonatan, Eliezer, Yochanan and Simeon left Jerusalem and settled in the small village of Modi'in. When the soldiers arrived in Modi'in to set up the idols, they demanded that the Jews offer sacrifices. One Jew stepped forward to do this and Matityahu became so angry that he killed the man. His sons then began fighting the Syrian soldiers.

The Maccabees led the Jewish rebellion against Antiochus and his forces. Responding to their leader Judah's rallying cry, "all for Adonai follow me," the Jewish fighters fled to the hills and from there carried out three years of guerilla warfare against the Syrians. The Jews were greatly outnumbered, but one of the miracles of the Hanukah story is that they prevailed. After several losses in battle, the Syrians admitted defeat. Hanukah became the victory of the few over the many. It was a victory for religious freedom for the Jews.

The Temple in Jerusalem was cleansed and a ceremony of rededication was held. The Hebrew word for dedication is Hanukah and thus the name of our eight day celebration.

[sfwarrior]

I was raised an Orthodox Jew. We believed in the bible literally and kept most of the laws, including Kashrut. I don't wear a Yarmulke now nor do I keep the laws, primarily because I'm a Jew that's now accepted the Messiah, Jesus.
Your retelling seemed a bit bitter. Maybe you weren't Bar Mitsvahed or circumcized. You should lose the hostility.
As for me, I found that Jewish ceremonies and holidays were empty and dreary. Plus the fact that the Jews are the leaders of every politically correct movement and embraced everything antithetical to the bible was enough to push me over to accept Christ.

Incidentally, here's a different version of the Hanukah story from Temple Emanuel's website:
THE STORY OF HANUKAH
In 168 B.C.E., the Jews of Judea were ruled by a Syrian king named Antiochus. Antiochus and his soldiers were hellenized Syrians. More than 150 years before the Maccabees, Alexander the Great had conquered all the Near East. He and his successors influenced the culture of these conquered lands. This meant they shared, sometimes forcefully, their Greek habits, customs and beliefs. That is why the "enemies" in the retelling of the Hanukah story are sometimes called Syrians, sometimes called Greeks and sometimes called Syrian/Greeks.

Antiochus wanted to hellenize Judea. His soldiers desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem and he decreed that Judaism was abolished. Antiochus demanded that the Jewish people now worship Greek gods and sacrifice pigs. There were some Jews who wanted to hellenize and accept Greek ways, and other Jews who did not. One historian has suggested that the Maccabean revolt began as a civil war between these two factions.

The Syrian soldiers set up altars to the Greek gods throughout Judea. Slowly, a resistance movement began to grow, led by a priestly family known as the Hasmoneans or Maccabees. The head of the family was Matityahu (Mattithias). He and his five sons Judah, Yonatan, Eliezer, Yochanan and Simeon left Jerusalem and settled in the small village of Modi'in. When the soldiers arrived in Modi'in to set up the idols, they demanded that the Jews offer sacrifices. One Jew stepped forward to do this and Matityahu became so angry that he killed the man. His sons then began fighting the Syrian soldiers.

The Maccabees led the Jewish rebellion against Antiochus and his forces. Responding to their leader Judah's rallying cry, "all for Adonai follow me," the Jewish fighters fled to the hills and from there carried out three years of guerilla warfare against the Syrians. The Jews were greatly outnumbered, but one of the miracles of the Hanukah story is that they prevailed. After several losses in battle, the Syrians admitted defeat. Hanukah became the victory of the few over the many. It was a victory for religious freedom for the Jews.

The Temple in Jerusalem was cleansed and a ceremony of rededication was held. The Hebrew word for dedication is Hanukah and thus the name of our eight day celebration.

[maestro]

LOL........Christians did NOT invent December 25th as 'Christmas'...!!!

December 25th was an ongoing Gentile (Evolutionist/Re-incarnationist) Pagan Festival which 'rejected/denied' The One-and-Only-Creator-God-Elohim and HIS ABSOLUTE VOICE.

Hanukkak is Christmas!

Christmas is Hanukkah!

Same 'Light' of Jesus!

Christmas,....Jesus' Incarnation was always on the 25th!
But,.....it was on the 25th of Kislev! (Hannukah)

The Nominal-christian-Goys 'picked-up' on the 25th,...and RePLANTED it on the 25th of December,....their Anti-God worship day.

Oh,....Hannukah 'is' all about the dedication of the Temple bathed in LIGHT of the 7-branched OIL-TREE-LAMP!

There is NO light BUT Jesus!

Messiah 'is' ......THE-LIGHT-of-THE-WORLD.

Happy Hannukah All!

(Lighten-Up!)

[The vessal has been Broken for us!]

Maranatha! Maranatha!

[maestro]

Merry Hannukah...................BTTT

[xzins]

Christmas,....Jesus' Incarnation was always on the 25th! But,.....it was on the 25th of Kislev! (Hannukah)

Please explain this to me. Humbly asked. X

[lavaroise]

As for me, I found that Jewish ceremonies and holidays were empty and dreary. Plus the fact that the Jews are the leaders of every politically correct movement and embraced everything antithetical to the bible was enough to push me over to accept Christ.

Well, I do not think it is as bad as in Europe, where people celebrate on Christmas the venue of the privileged anti-Christ, and not Christ Himself.

[maestro]

The key is the great motion of the Hebrew (Bible) calendar.
(It moves even 'through' December 25th at times.)
The nominal-christian pagans 'jumped' on adding it (jesus/mary) to their 'hall of idols'.

The Devil is an evil imitator/deceiver.

[maestro]

See post #22).................bttt

[maestro]

Happy Hannukah!

(Happy Birthday, Jesus!)

[Cacique]

ping

[Yehuda]

both accounts are part of the history (though this author seems to have mixed them together
__________

Channa and her Seven Sons

Antiochus was determined to enforce his vicious edicts upon the Jews, effectively destroying their attachment to the Torah. He forbade the observance of all religious laws; anyone found with a Torah would be executed; circumcision, kosher food, Shabbat, all vestiges of Judaism were outlawed.

Phillip was appointed governor of Judea, and he set out to ruthlessly enforce the king's edicts. He decided to begin his campaign with the arrest of the notable Sage and High Priest, Elazar. Elazar thwarted Phillip's design by choosing martyrdom over submission. Soon after, Chana and her seven sons were arrested.

When the king, who was returning to Antioch, heard about the events which were taking place in Jerusalem, he decided to take an active role in enforcing his decrees. The mother and her sons were bound and brought before the king.

Antiochus tried to convince the eldest boy to abandon the Torah. The youth responded with great confidence, "Why do you bother with this long speech, trying to inflict your abominable religion upon us? We are ready to welcome death for the sake of our holy Torah. Go ahead and kill us!"

The king was furious and ordered the boy's tongue, hands and feet severed and placed in a fire. The soldiers proceeded to torture the boy, forcing his mother and six brothers to watch his excruciating pain. Antiochus was sure that this sight would intimidate his prisoners into unquestioning submission.

Instead, the martyrdom spurred the family to a deep resolve to accept their fate and to sanctify G-d's name. When the second brother was brought to the king, even the members of the king's retinue begged the boy to obey the king. The boy, however, replied, "Do what you will with me. I am no less than my brother in devotion to G-d." The second son's torture was as bitter as his brother's had been. As he died he told the king, "Woe to you, pitiless tyrant! Our souls go to G-d. And when G-d will awaken the dead and His martyred servants, we will live. But you-your soul will dwell in a place of eternal abhorrence!"

To the amazement of all, the third brother unflinchingly suffered the same fate. The fourth brother echoed his brothers' exhortations, and faced his brutal death with firm resolve. Before he was killed, the fifth brother turned to Antiochus and said: "Don't suppose that G-d has handed us over to you to exalt you or because He hates us. It is because He loves us and has granted us this honor. G-d will take His vengeance upon you and your progeny."

The blood-lust of the king was not assuaged, and the sixth brother was brought to the same end as his brothers who preceeded him. His words bespoke his deep faith that G-d would ultimately requite the suffering of His servants.

Throughout this horrible sequence Chana stood by her sons, giving them strength and encouragement. Now, only the youngest child remained to face the king. When they brought the boy, the king offered him gold and silver if he would do his will. The seven-year-old boy displayed the same courage as his brothers and taunted the king to carry out his threats.

The king couldn't believe such words coming from a mere child, and he called for Chana to be brought to him. Chana stood before the murderer of her children and listened to his words. "Woman, have compassion upon this child. Persuade him to do my will so that you will have at least one surviving child and you too will live." She pretended to agree and asked to speak with her son.

When they stood together, Chana kissed the boy, then said, "My son, I carried you in my body for nine months, I nursed you for two years and I have fed you until today. I have taught you to fear G-d and uphold His Torah. See the heaven and the earth, the sea and the land, fire, water, wind and every other creation. Know that they were all created by G-d's word. He created man to serve Him and He will reward man for his deeds. The king knows he is condemned before G-d. He thinks that if he convinces you, G-d will have mercy on him. G-d controls your life's breath and can take your soul whenever He desires. If only I could see the greatness of your glorious place where we would be illuminated with G-d's light and rejoice and exult together."

Chana returned to the king, saying, "I was unable to prevail upon him."

The exasperated king again addressed the child who answered him, "Who are you seeking to overpower with your words and enticements? I laugh at your foolishness. I believe in the Torah and in G-d Whom you blaspheme. You will remain an abomination upon all mankind, loathsome and far from G-d."

The king was enraged. According to the Talmud, Antiochus gave the boy a chance to save himself by bowing down to retrieve his signet ring, but the boy refused. As they removed him, Chana begged to kiss him one last time. As if speaking to all seven children, Chana said, "My children, tell your ancestor Abraham, 'You bound only one son upon an altar, but I bound seven." Then Antiochus ordered that the child be tortured even more than his brothers.

Chana was left surrounded by the mutilated bodies of her sons, a prayer exalting G-d on her lips. Then the distraught woman threw herself from a roof and rested beside her martyred sons.

from (and more on the history at this site): http://www.torah.net/eng/chanuka/hannah.htm

Note: these days, based on the example of Judah Maaccabee, we fight back.

[Yehuda]

I thought it was funny!

Is he nuts or is it a pintele Yid? I have noticed that even the most strident assimilationist/liberals, (in Steve Plaut's terms, "ass-libs"). have one thing they won't cave on; sometimes it's reasonable, sometimes not, and sometimes their "vocalness" on the subject is a hint of taking on more Jewish observance in the future.

Happy Chanukah!

[AppyPappy]

I just love heart-warming holiday stories.

Note: Christmas is not Jesus' birthday. It's the day we celebrate His Birth. And I don't know why Christians don't celebrate Passover.

[BrooklynGOP]

I'm a Jew that's now accepted the Messiah, Jesus.

Speaking of JINO....

[AppyPappy]

We call them Seventh Day Adventists

[Inkie]

Hey, it's fun to give presents. I'll take any excuse. I love giving to my kids (grownups just starting in life and always needing something).

The theme of Hanukkah is, "Just when you think there isn't any more, there's more." I think that's a wonderful, optimistic, non-defeatist, non-victimologist, non-left-wing-whiner idea.

My rabbi also says when you light each light, you can recall times in your life when you made some decision that changed you as a person and brought you closer to G-d -- times you "saw the light," as it were. It does make you think beyond the literal, historical story of Hanukkah.

[crystalk]

Jesus himself celebrated Hanukkah. The New Testament says that "Jesus was walking in the Temple. It was the feast of the Dedication, and it was winter." This he did even though this was by no means one of the major feasts when large crowds etc assembled.

The book of Habakkuk/Havkuk tells us of the mystical significance of the 24th of Kislev, which has not yet played out in the end time events, but the prophet says it will.

Again, the Annunciation to Mary by tradition took place on the 24th of Kislev, so it was easy to move the Birth to the 24th December evening, since December seemed a sort of Kislev to the Greco/Roman empire.

[Inkie]

I believe a Jew who accepts Jesus is called a Christian. That is just fine and an individual's choice, so no aspersions on sfwarrior. But let's stop playing with the language. It's just too Orwellian and we've had enough of that, like "fetus" instead of "baby" and "social justice" instead of distinguishing personal compassion from legal justice.

[jpl]

Happy Hanukkah to all our Jewish freepers and their families.

[Inkie]

Thanks to you and others who have blessed us with your friendship.

[TopQuark]

A nice slur from one of our "older brothers".

Since this is a morally neutral statement, it is not a slur. It may or may not be correct, it may not be tactful, but it is not a slur. Unless you choose to take it this way.

And you surely do:
Here's hoping he comes to learn one day that God created the Jews for his own purposes, namely as an instrument for the word's salvation -- not to legitimize the god of tribal triumphalism.

From this one sentence you deduced tribal triumphalism of the "older brothers?"

Sounds like an inferiority complex to me.

[BrooklynGOP]

I believe a Jew who accepts Jesus is called a Christian. That is just fine and an individual's choice, so no aspersions on sfwarrior.

Exactly. I personally don't care if he converts out or not. That's his personal choice. But why not call things as they are?

[TopQuark]

As for me, I found that Jewish ceremonies and holidays were empty and dreary.

The one who does not search cannot find.

Plus the fact that the Jews are the leaders of every politically correct movement and embraced everything antithetical to the bible

People among whom you grew up do not do so. There are plenty of conservative Jews that are sich religiously, politically, and culturally. You had other reasones thus.

Just like in any family, in any friendship, one may find the loved ones to be in trouble --- not necessarily physical illness, but lost and misguided, wasting their lives. One has a stadard choice: to stay and help the family to find the right way, or to abandon them and find another family. We know what you have choicen.

As you well know, it is not merely a philosophical choice for a Jew whether to keep his religion. At least forty generations experienced unparalleled hardhips to give you life. Your great-great-grandfather was kicked out of Germany and went to Ukraine with nothing, only to suffer from Kozaks. Fourty generations suffered and preserved the tradition so that you may live as a Jew.

It is clear that your father has failed somewhere: not only you have no depth to see the meaning of the holidays, you apparently do not even know how to spell the word "duty" --- to anything or anybody.

to push me over to accept Christ.

Well, enjoy the music and festive holidays.

[BrooklynGOP]

Well, enjoy the music and festive holidays.

Don't forget those pretty Christmas decorations! :P

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Thanks! I'll pass the Holiday greetings on to my wife.

Cheers.

[Yehuda]

"I just love heart-warming holiday stories. "

LOL!

[rmvh]

Oh yes!! Just another subject and its thread of comments claiming....in one way or another:.....MY RELIGION IS BETTER THAN YOUR RELIGION!! pathetic

[JimRed]

As a Jewish male who doesn't wear a Yarmulke, who eats cheeseburgers, chicken cordon bleu and pork chops, and who paid retail for his television set...

PAID RETAIL? You must repent!

Seriously, offering a chuckle at one's own expense can go a long way towards promoting understanding.

[Alouette]

Seriously, why do you think that Jews give their loved ones "Hanukkah Presents"? Because they like to give gifts? If that was the reason, then they would be given on Rosh Hashanah (The very important Jewish New Year), or Sukkoth (A very beautiful major Jewish holiday) or Purim (A very festive major Jewish Holiday).

Hey dumbass (Mr. Shaw, not you, paltz), we Jews DO give each other presents on Rosh Hashanah, Sukkot, Tu Bi'Shvat, Purim, Passover, and Shavuot! And on Hanukkah too. My daughter said to me many years ago, "I feel so sorry for the goyishe kids, they only have one holiday a year."

[Romulus]

Since this is a morally neutral statement, it is not a slur.

Thanks for the correction. I take it that in the same spirit we can agree that this other morally neutral statement also is not a slur: "Channukah is a Jewish appropriation of the Pagan solstice".

[TopQuark]

You are absolutely correct.

Especially if there is a historical basis for that.