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Another conservative criticism of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan
Freedom Works Blog and New York Times via United Liberty Blog ^ | October 7, 2011

Posted on 10/08/2011 5:51:10 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Earlier this week, I noted some of the criticism of Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan from conservative circles, Kevin Williamson of the National Review chalks it up as “wishful thinking that borders on fantasy,” while Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute doesn’t like that it keeps the income tax in the tax code.

Dean Clancy, vice president of FreedomWorks — a leading tea party organization, sees good in the proposal; but notes that there are some glaring problems that could lay the precendent for bad tax policy in the future:

The first problem is that it doesn’t get rid of the income tax. In fact, it adds a new tax — a national sales tax — on top of the income tax. Cain clearly intends that eventually the income tax will be eliminated. But what’s to guarantee that outcome? And if we want to get rid of the income tax — and we should — why not do it right from the start? Is it possible that he realizes that if he did it all in one step, folks might not be as keen on the plan (say, because his national sales tax would have to be closer to 25% than 9%)?
[,,,]
The second problem with Cain’s plan is more serious. The plan puts in place the infrastructure for a VAT — a Value Added Tax. That’s bad. Very bad.

A VAT is a form of national sales tax that is collected at every stage of the process from the initial gathering of raw materials to the final sale to the end consumer. It is the most insidious of all taxes, because it is built into the price of everything and consumers can’t see how much of the price is due to the tax. So when prices rise due to a tax hike, consumers assume it’s just prices rising due to market forces. Politicians love this about a VAT. They can take more money out of our wallets than with other, more transparent forms of taxation. Taxpayers should hate it for the very same reason.

European countries have much higher overall tax takes than does the United States. Why? Because the Europeans all have VATs, and we do not. Total receipts of the US Government since World War II have averaged about 18 percent of GDP and have never exceeded 20.9 percent (the peak, in 1944). By comparison, the “Big Six” European countries’ total receipts since the early 1970s when VATs became ubiquitous have not been less than 30 percent of GDP and today average a little over 40 percent! Twice as high as in the US.

Well, you say, Cain’s national sales tax isn’t a VAT. Okay, that’s true. But guess what? Europe’s first VATs all started out life as national sales taxes. Sales taxes are relatively easy to evade. VATs are much harder to evade. So sales taxes have a habit of evolving into VATs. That’s what happened in Europe. And it’s what will happen here, if we adopt Cain’s sales tax.

But Cain isn’t running on serious policy proposals. The guy knows how to market and pitch an idea; after all, the 9-9-9 plan is easy to remember and the one-liners that he is tossing out are catchy. This may be good for selling pizzas, but not for tax policy. And the lack of seriousness is best exemplified by his campaign, which has no campaign stops in early primary states this month:

[A]ccording to his public campaign calendar of events, where 19 of the 31 days of October are blank, there will not be much glad-handing in the immediate future. That is just fine with Mr. Cain, a former business executive who has recently surged to the top tier of candidates in early polls. The latest Quinnipiac University poll, released Wednesday, found Mitt Romney and Mr. Cain essentially tied within the poll’s margin of sampling error.

“I’m trying to run this campaign like a start-up business, which means lean and mean,” Mr. Cain said in an interview on Tuesday, wearing his signature black cowboy hat. “There’s a new sheriff in town.”
[…]
But it is not clear that Mr. Cain, 65, has any particular plan to seize this moment, beyond using the attention to sell books. Like the other candidates vying to become credible alternatives to Mr. Romney and Mr. Perry, Mr. Cain is operating on a shoestring. He raised $2 million last spring. More money is coming in, he said, and he has 40 staff members, mostly in Southern states. Still, an adviser to the campaign said the campaign had only four people working in Iowa, and there is no plan to change strategy.

Many Republicans doubt this will be enough to launch Mr. Cain in the crucial early states, especially if he decides to avoid retail politics.

“No candidate can afford to spend two or three weeks not being in New Hampshire this year,” said Steve Duprey, a Republican National Committee member from the state. “He has not made as much progress organizing in New Hampshire as he could have, but there’s time.”

Cain defends this by saying he’s been to Iowa nearly 30 times since the beginning of the year. That’s fine, but organization is key and at least four other campaigns (Bachmann, Paul, Perry, and Romney) are investing time and/or money there. Not to mention that there are four other primaries/caucuses in January that Cain’s campaign needs to drop resources into.

With Cain you’ve got a master of the soundbyte that has the populist appeal to get his party’s base excited, yet his inexperience and lack of substance are real concerns. Wait, that reminds me of someone…Herman Cain is the Republican Barack Obama.



TOPICS: Parties
KEYWORDS: 999; hermancain; neinneinnein; taxplan
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To: RobertClark

Word.


61 posted on 10/08/2011 7:09:03 PM PDT by gura (If Allah is so great, why does he need fat sexually confused fanboys to do his dirty work? -iowahawk)
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To: RobertClark

Do they have tax on crack, meth, pot etc? /jk


62 posted on 10/08/2011 7:12:50 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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To: mylife

mylife”9% national sales tax on top of state sales tax will drive the market underground.”

Exactly.. can you imagine... in some states were folks are paying already nine or ten percent on some items..adding another 9 percent sales tax. Unbelievable. Once again .. I like Cain, but he needs to drop his 9-9-9 tax plan.


63 posted on 10/08/2011 7:14:05 PM PDT by AmericanMade1776 ( Obama Happens! Not my Fault!)
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To: RobertClark
Go read about the Chilean system.

You might want to do the same. Contributions are mandatory not voluntary. The only exceptions are self-employed, the armed forces, and a few other select occupations. And other than the self-employed the other workers are required to contribute to their own systems. Yet Cain doesn't mention the tax people will have to pay to fund their retirement. I assume that's in addition to the 9% income and 9% sales taxes? What rate will this additional tax be?

64 posted on 10/08/2011 7:15:16 PM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: SeekAndFind

The criticism seems to be the same old Eeyore hand wringing lament; "no one can guarantee it won't be changed in the future so let's not do anything."

Show me the legislation that can't be changed in the future.

65 posted on 10/08/2011 7:22:21 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: SoJoCo
You might want to do the same. Contributions are mandatory not voluntary. The only exceptions are self-employed, the armed forces, and a few other select occupations. And other than the self-employed the other workers are required to contribute to their own systems. Yet Cain doesn't mention the tax people will have to pay to fund their retirement. I assume that's in addition to the 9% income and 9% sales taxes? What rate will this additional tax be?

Quit relying on Wikipedia as a source of knowledge. They have it incorrect. The system is a voluntary system, but 95% of citizens do opt-in. Once you opt-in, yes your contributions are mandatory. So, either you save for your own retirement, or taxpayers are forced to take care of you?!? I'll take the former.

I studied the Chilean system for nearly a year and wrote my dissertation on the subject. I believe I am more familiar with the system than most Americans, and I state that with confidence.

66 posted on 10/08/2011 7:26:29 PM PDT by RobertClark (It's better to look goofy with a rifle, than civilized with an exit wound.)
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To: RobertClark

Would it be a benefit or a detriment to buy air time like Perot did to explain it to the masses?


67 posted on 10/08/2011 7:33:59 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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To: RobertClark

Doesn’t make sense that you opt in and THEN it is mandatory. So why opt in? What is Herman Cain’s ABC that he talks about? How does it relate to the average conservative voter?


68 posted on 10/08/2011 7:34:02 PM PDT by lahargis
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To: lahargis

Its mandatory if you opt in. Like was posted, 95% did so in Chile, the other 5% will be phased out as they die.


69 posted on 10/08/2011 7:43:01 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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To: basil

Hah, basil.

I am not from Costa Rica. I was born in Methodist Hospital in Dallas, Texas. I just got tired of the Texas messages.

Perry isn’t perfect, but he’s been a good governor and done a lot of things I like. He’s been blamed unfairly for the porous border which is supposed to be a national responsibility but, of course, Obama has done nothing.

Perry has a plan involving some fencing, drones ... I don’t remember all the facets of it, but I do know he went to Israel to consult them about border security and he is a strong supporter of Israel.

Some of his plans have been unpopular ... the highway for example (never heard of him trying to split the state???). I didn’t think that was so horrible. Highways always take a little land from people but they are well compensated. We’d have no roads at all if that wasn’t done.

I know foreign interests were gonna front the money. In return we’d get the much needed road and they would get the tolls. But nobody had to use the road or pay the tolls. Well, that didn’t pass.

The gardisal thing is way overblown. He didn’t do it for some sort of deal with Merck ... they gave him something like five thousand dollars, drop in the bucket. I think he and his wife honestly thought it would protect children.

Surely everyone knows that the state (as most states) requires mandatory vaccinations for many diseases, a little different thing granted as they could be communicable but still not an unheard of practice. Also, parents could opt out. This plan died in Texas but other states are considering in.

Texas is full of Mexicans, as you know. Someone from Massachusetts or even Georgia criticizing Perry on this should walk in his boots for a couple of days. He says his main objective is to close the border. I don’t know if it can be done without federal help, it’s a dang long border, but if Perry were elected, we’d have federal help. hello?

I don’t worship Perry but I think he’s our best hope. I don’t trust Cain and I sure don’t trust Romney.


70 posted on 10/08/2011 7:44:35 PM PDT by altura (Perry 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind
plan puts in place the infrastructure for a VAT — a Value Added Tax

People in the news media who throw out the term VAT in regards to 9-9-9 are either ignorant are knowingly lying.

VAT taxes every level of production and hides the cost of the tax inside the cost of goods. It makes all business the Government's cut out tax collector. Therefore VAT is a much more opaque and different form of taxation then a Sales Tax which taxes only at the final point of sale. VAT is a completely different form of taxation then what is in the 9-9-9 plan. Those commentators that throw out the term "VAT" in relationship to 9-9-9 are either completely ignornat of what is in 9-9-9 or knowingly lying.

71 posted on 10/08/2011 7:49:02 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: lahargis

It demonstrates the desire to be self-reliant. The individual accounts are essentially an asset, which can be passed on to heirs and provide a stable income throughout your retirement. Social Security does no such thing, and it surely is not an asset that can be passed on to heirs.


72 posted on 10/08/2011 7:50:12 PM PDT by RobertClark (It's better to look goofy with a rifle, than civilized with an exit wound.)
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To: altura

Really?

Can you post some links to Perry’ Presidential plans and agenda? Not slogans and vague words in various speeches but a real on line plan we can read and discuss?


73 posted on 10/08/2011 7:50:34 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: MNJohnnie

Not to you, my friend.

It’s been done many times and you’ve ignored it.


74 posted on 10/08/2011 7:52:43 PM PDT by altura (Perry 2012)
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To: SoJoCo
You currently pay mandatory taxes, plus the higher cost of goods an services to pay for the Business's share of SS taxes.

To throw out the term "mandatory" in regards to Chilean system while ignoring the mandatory taxes you are paying into a the US SS system now is dishonest The major difference is the Chilean system is invested into a private account.

The mandatory US SS taxes you pay are taken to DC, borrowed by the professional political class of both parties and then spent. You meanwhile are left and IOU promising to some day maybe pay you back leaving you nothing but an IOU in your SS account

75 posted on 10/08/2011 7:55:59 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: altura

Excellent answer.


76 posted on 10/08/2011 7:57:30 PM PDT by KingKongCobra
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To: SeekAndFind

Is it chiseled in stone that Cain thinks it has to be 100% this way or no way? As a successful businessman and intelligent guy, don’t you think he’d be open to discussing modifications, use his plan as a starting point?


77 posted on 10/08/2011 7:58:28 PM PDT by smalltownslick
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To: AmericanMade1776; mylife
mylife”9% national sales tax on top of state sales tax will drive the market underground.”

Sorry but you have it exactly backwards. The billions of dollars in the current underground economy can not longer stay underground in the 9-9-9 system since the underground economy always comes above ground to bye consumer goods.

9-9-9 eliminates the ability to "Work off the books" or "get paid in cash".

78 posted on 10/08/2011 7:58:50 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: RobertClark

From what I’ve read on it, the Chilean pension system is failing even though reformed in ‘08 and the World Bank is recommending it switch to a VAT system.

It was written by what are called “The Chicago Boys,” who are Chileans who studied economics in the USA. It is a neo-liberal economics model on trade and retirement statutes ala Milton Friedman.


79 posted on 10/08/2011 8:00:03 PM PDT by stilloftyhenight
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To: xzins
So, you believe tax and spend politician

So you believe fighting tooth and nail to prevent any reform to the current tax system is going to help reform our current broken corrupt Government system?

If this is "never going to happen" why are you racing around this website spamming everything thread with attack posts against this reform plan?

80 posted on 10/08/2011 8:01:57 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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