UFO still puzzles 30 years later (Coyne Incident)

Mansfield Journal ^ | 10/18/2003 | Russ Kent

[SteveH]

MANSFIELD -- Thirty years ago tonight, strange things were happening in the skies over north central Ohio.

A close encounter in Mansfield, that has since become known as "The Coyne Incident," is still raising eyebrows among believers and UFO investigators.

[Quix]

HERE'S A REPORT OF A MID EAST UFO ALSO CAPTURED ON, I THINK VIDEO . . .

From:

HERE: http://www.bahraintribune.com/ArticleDetail.asp?ArticleId=9630&CategoryId=0

================

UFO seen in Bahrain skies

People from around the country have reported seeing an Unidentified Flying Object in the skies of Bahrain emitting strange lights for about a minute at around 11pm on Friday.

Bahraini Mohammed Jaffer Al Hajer was sitting with six of his friends outside his home in Qurrayah village near Budaiya when they noticed the UFO in the distant skies. Al Hajer ‘caught’ the strange object on his digital video camera as the lights appeared twice – once when the UFO emitted a bright yellow light and the second time when it split into two before disappearing.

“We first noticed the strange light appear to the left of the Batelco tower in the village,” he said. “We saw it again just above the tower when I reached for my camera and began to video tape it.” Al Hajer videotaped the object for about 40 seconds before it disappeared. The pictures were not clear because of the high speed of the object and the low resolution of the camera, according to Al Hajer. People in Manama also reported seeing the UFO at the same time and placed it between Manama and Muharraq, in the same vicinity as Al Hajer claimed.

However, sources at Bahrain International Airport tower told the Tribune that the radars there did not register any abnormal activity during that time.

The lights emanating from the UFO as it split into two, as recorded by Al Hajer. The red blur is the Batelco tower light.

Another picture – Page 7

Last update on: 15-10-2003

[Quix]

Perhaps you have a BETTER label for Billdo Clinton?

. . . other than Traitor-in-Chief?

I would have thought that a logical application of your INTERPRETATION/INFERENCES of the Scripture you cited would have at least brought a slight grin if not a guffaw and/or a smile.

Ahhh, well. I should have remembered that those seemingly overgiven toward tidy-little-box theologies are very often less than a humorous or easily humORED sort.

[Quix]

ABSOLUTELY. WILL IMMEDIATELY.

Sorry to have bothered you.

Blessings to you and yours this season, winter and New Year.

[Quix]

HERE'S SOME MORE STUFF ON THE SHAG HARBOUR INCIDENT.

FROM:

http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2003/10/13/f183.raw.html

---

Monday, October 13, 2003 The Halifax Herald Limited

Close encounter in Shag Harbour
UFO buffs gather at spot where strange craft allegedly sighted in 1967

Shag Harbour - A busload of UFO zealots landed in Shag Harbour on Sunday afternoon to see for themselves the spot of ocean where some think a UFO crashed 36 years ago.

Sunday's excursion was a field trip for nearly 40 UFO researchers and true believers attending a Dartmouth symposium dedicated to airborne unidentified objects.

The Halifax International UFO Symposium was held at Alderney Landing. Local filmmaker and UFO buff Michael MacDonald made a previous documentary on the world-famous Shag Harbour UFO mystery of Oct. 4, 1967, and filmed the weekend symposium, including the field trip, for a two-hour TV documentary he's making for the Space Channel.

Antonio Huneeus, a Chilean-born journalist who now lives in Brooklyn, N.Y., was on the bus Sunday.

The science writer, considered one of the world's top UFO experts, referred to the incident of June 14, 1947, in which a UFO is said to have crashed 120 kilometres north of Roswell, N.M., leaving behind unusual debris found by rancher Mac Brazel.

"Most people are familiar with the Roswell case and there have been another few so-called UFO crash cases," Mr. Huneeus said.

"But what's missing in all these other cases is no official paper trail.

"Shag Harbour is unique in the world. It is the only case of a UFO accident where . . . we have an official paper trail. And there's no dispute about the authenticity of those documents," he said.

The Shag Harbour incident was at first believed to have been an airplane crash. A bright light was seen crashing into the sea, near the southwestern tip of Shelburne County, by several residents and a couple of Mounties driving in their cruiser.

Fishermen later found a thick scum on the water and detected a strange sulphur-like odour.

"The documents, they basically are police records and coast guard records," Mr. Huneeus said.

"But they never debunked it. They didn't try to say it was a meteorite or something else. It remains unknown to this day."

The columnist for Fate magazine, a popular journal of the paranormal, is convinced the Shag Harbour incident really happened.

"Based on all the evidence . . . it seems to be a UFO. You must be somewhat skeptical because many reports of sightings are nonsense.

"But not this case. This case is very solid."

Art McLaughlin, a mechanical engineer from Halifax, has been to Shag Harbour three times and is also convinced the sighting in 1967 was that of a UFO.

"I believe it's not of our world. It seems as though the powers that be or the government seems not to want to release certain things, so that's the intriguing part of it," he said.

"Once (Shag Harbour) gets the publicity . . . that Roswell gets, I think it will be quickly recognized that this is a much more solid case," said Mr. McLaughlin. "Not to put down Roswell . . . I think it really happened."

[Quix]

PING for additional Shag Harbour ping.

I *THINK* that some of the statements in the doc are along the lines of some you have sort of asked for at times.

Though I realize I could easily be wrong in my memory of such.

But I have no doubt that your reflexive tendencies to assert my wrongness will be in great shape should that remotely be the case.

---

I have wondered . . . since that shower pondering . . . IF

IF, mind you,

IF you have SOME of the added umph to your debunking tendencies because it

would be SUCH A BOTHER to have to adjust a lot of your constructions on reality. And a LOT of you would really rather not have to do that.

???

Just hypothesizing, still. Habitual in such situations.

[Quix]

I don't recall running into this one before. Interesting. Bold and color emphasis by Qx.

from:

HERE: http://ufos.about.com/cs/famoussightings/a/aa101303.htm

-----------------------------

The Red Bluff Refraction

I'd hate to try to take one of my cases into court with such weak arguments.

(Officer Charles A. Carson, referring to the Air Force explanation for his and Officer Stanley Scott's sighting.) Corning, California

August 13, 1960 11:50 p.m.

California Highway Patrol Officers Charles A.

Carson and Stanley Scott were patrolling on Hoag Road, east of Corning, California when they saw what looked like a huge airliner descending from the sky in front of them. Thinking that a plane was about to crash, they stopped and got out of the car to get a better look. They watched as the object descended in complete silence to about 100 to 200 feet from the ground, then suddenly reversed and climbed back to about 500 feet from the ground and stopped. Officer Carson described it in a police teletype report:

At this time it was clearly visible to both of us. It was surrounded by a glow making the round or oblong object visible. At each end, or each side of the object, there were definite red lights. At times about five white lights were visible between the red lights. As we watched the object moved again and performed aerial feats that were actually unbelievable.

The officers radioed the Tehama County Sheriff's Office and asked Deputy Clarence Fry to contact the local Air Force radar station at Red Bluff. Deputy Fry reported back that the radar station verified that an unidentified object was visible on radar.

As they continued to watch the object:

On two occasions the object came directly towards the patrol vehicle; each time it approached, the object turned, swept the area with a huge red light. Officer Scott turned the red light on the patrol vehicle towards the object, and it immediately went away from us. We observed the object use the red beam approximately 6 or 7 times, sweeping the sky and ground areas.

The object then began to move slowly to the east, and the officers followed. When they had reached the Vina Plains Fire Station, the object was approached by a second object that came from the south. The second object moved near to the first and both stopped and hovered for some time, occasionally emitting red beams. After a time, both objects vanished below the eastern horizon. They had observed the first object for a total of about two hours and fifteen minutes.

When they returned to the Tehama County Sheriff's Office, they found that the object had also been seen by Deputies Fry and Montgomery, as well as by the night jailer. All described the same thing.

The next day, Officers Carson and Scott drove to the Red Bluff Air Station to discuss the sighting and to speak to the operator that had seen it on radar. The Air Force, however, now denied that the object had been seen on radar, contradicting what the radar operator had told Deputy Fry the night before. The visit was completely unproductive.

More information regarding the sighting was obtained by NICAP(National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena) advisor Walter N. Webb, who contacted Carson and received a copy of the report, drawings of the object, and a letter from Carson.

In the letter, dated November 14, 1960, Carson said:

We made several attempts to follow it, or I should say get closer to it, but the object seemed aware of us and we were more successful remaining motionless and allow it to approach us, which it did on several occasions.

In the original report, Carson also mentioned that:

Each time the object neared us, we experienced radio interference.

Again, from the letter to Webb:

The object was shaped like a football, the edges, or I should say outside of the object were clear to us...[the] glow was emitted by the object, was not a reflection of other lights.

What was the "official" explanation for the sighting? In a letter to a NICAP member, the Air Force said: The findings [are] that the individuals concerned witnessed a refraction of the planet Mars and the bright stars Aldebaran and Betelgeux(sic).

. . [temperature inversions] contributed to the phenomena as the planet Mars was quite low in the skies and the inversion caused it to be projected upward.

They also said:

A contributing factor to the sightings could have been the layer of smoke which hung over the area in a thin stratiform layer. This smoke came from the forest fires in the area hung in layer due to the stable conditions associated with the inversions.

When NICAP pointed out that Mars, Aldebaran, and Betelgeuse were all below the horizon at the time of the sighting, the Air Force changed the star involved to Capella, which was slightly above the eastern horizon at the time. They neglected to explain the fact that, as the sighting progressed, Capella would have risen in the sky, whereas the objects disappeared below the eastern horizon at the end of the sighting.

Officer Carson had this to say about the Air Force explanations:

...I have been told we saw Northern lights, a weather balloon, and now refractions.

…;I served 4 years with the Air Force, I believe I am familiar with the Northern lights, also weather balloons.

Officer Scott served as a paratrooper during the Korean Conflict. Both of us are aware of the tricks light can play on the eyes during darkness. We were aware of this at the time. Our observations and estimations of speed, size, etc. came from aligning the object with fixed objects on the horizon. I agree we find it difficult to believe what we were watching, but no one will ever convince us that we were witnessing a refraction of light.

A check of the meteorological records of the area for that night by atmospheric physicist James E. MacDonald failed to find any evidence that would indicate the presence of a temperature inversion.

Over the next week, similar sightings were reported, including another sighting the very next evening by Deputies Fry and Montgomery that was also seen by a Corning police officer.

~ Loy Lawhon

Poohbah, I realize you have no respect for experts of any kind. Your criteria for photos and videos are probably beyond that of the photointerpreters at the NSA. You may well believe that police officers most commonly lie and are absolutely virtually blind idiots when it comes to assessing and reporting visually obtained stimuli.

And, of course, since the police officers did not obtain a 3' X 3' x 3' piece of either craft and the right arm of the main pilot--they must not have seen anything of value.

Nevertheless, perhaps taking all such 'reasoning' into account, would you insist 100% that the above report had 0.000000000000000000000000000% even slightly to significantly interesting items in it???

[auggy]

Wow! I've always wondered why the government feels it needs to withhold info on UFO's and stuff like that. What gives theme the right? I guess they think the sheeple will go crazy.

[Quix]

AND, yet another interesting story--THIS ONE--AN ABDUCTION STORY WITH SOME REPORTING FROM A NASA INVOLVED ENGINEER/SCIENTIST TYPE from:

HERE: http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.gulflive.com/mississippi/index.ssf%3F/base/news/106578096493130.xml

-------------------------------------

30 years later, UFO incident still hovers over Pascagoula River

10/10/03

By LICI BEVERIDGE

GAUTIER -- Charles Hickson has spent the last 30 years living with something most other people couldn't even imagine.

On Oct. 11, 1973, Hickson and Calvin Parker were fishing on the Pascagoula River, enjoying the cool fall evening. What seemed to be the beginning of a peaceful night turned to chaos when the pair suddenly found themselves in a close encounter with an alien craft and its occupants.

the country, including many reported by law enforcement officials that September and October in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Tennessee.

In October 1973 alone there were more than 500 sightings reported, said John Schuessler, international director and founding member of Mutual UFO Network, which tracks sightings and contacts with alien vessels and beings.

"There's no way to know why things happen that way," Schuessler said.

Schuessler said a similar rash of sightings were reported in 1961, the year Betty and Barney Hill reported having contact with aliens while returning from vacation in Canada to their New Hampshire home.

Most reported incidents are not actual UFO sightings or do not have enough information for investigators to follow up on, Schuessler said.

"There's only about 10 to 20 percent worth investigating," he said.

Schuessler said he has been researching UFO phenomena since 1965, but takes it all with a grain of salt. Retired, he worked for a contractor at NASA's Johnson Space Center, so he takes a more scientific approach to ufology -- the study of unidentified flying objects.

Hickson's reported abduction is one Schuessler said he believes happened.

"He's credible because of his background," Schuessler said. "He's not a loose can of nuts."

Hickson is a religious family man and demonstrated strong leadership skills as a foreman when he worked in the shipyards in Pascagoula, Schuessler said.

An Army veteran with five battle stars from his service in Korea, Hickson was honored by the Republic of Korea in 2000, 50 years after he was stationed there. The Korean government gave Hickson a certificate and medal to thank him for giving his all to protect and preserve democracy around the world.

Schuessler said many of the people who report sightings or contacts with aliens are upstanding citizens like Hickson, and are hesitant to talk about their experiences in public.

"It's quite common for them not to seek publicity," Schuessler said.

Others have contacted Hickson through letters and e-mails, confidentially sharing their experiences with UFOs or aliens.

"They don't want to tell anybody else about it," he said.

Most people that Hickson has talked to about the abduction believe him. Very few people, in fact, have expressed doubt about Hickson's contact with aliens.

"I've never had anyone tell me I'm lying, or ridicule me," he said. "I've had a few people tell me they couldn't believe it unless they've seen it for themselves. I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me."

Hickson still gets questions about UFO experience

About 40 people turned out for a book signing Hickson held in April at Gautier Public Library. None expressed doubt about Hickson's contact with aliens. They all had questions about his experience.

"Was there physical evidence found at the site?"

"Were there other witnesses who saw what happened?"

"Have you had contact with them again?"

"Are they friendly?"

"Were you able to communicate with them?"

The questions rained on Hickson but he patiently answered each one, giving insight to the alien encounter 30 years ago.

Hickson, then 42, and Parker, then 19, like others at first, did not want their abduction publicized, but a reported leak to The Mississippi Press made publicity inevitable.

Not knowing what to do after their experience, Parker and Hickson went to the Jackson County Sheriff's Department to report what happened. The two men's interviews were taped as they talked with the sheriff and deputies at the Pascagoula station.

In the days and weeks that followed, the two men underwent hypnosis with UFO investigator Dr. James Harder. Under hypnosis, they provided further details of their abduction. Hickson and Parker were interviewed by Dr. Allen Hynek, a noted UFO expert. Both abductees took polygraph tests and were deemed to be telling the truth about their experience.

Then-Sheriff Fred Diamond in 1973 said he believed the two men shared a terrifying experience.

"Their stories -- told individually and together -- were the same," Diamond told The Mississippi Press in 1973. "To them, their experience was real. They showed it emotionally."

Capt. Glen Ryder, who worked for the Sheriff's Department, at the time at first expressed doubt over the two men's tales.

"I thought they were pulling my leg," Ryder said in a Mississippi Press interview in 1973. "I didn't believe their story at first, but I do now, after I got them on tape. If they were lying to me, then they should be in Hollywood."

Hynek and Harder both said Hickson's and Parker's stories are credible.

Hynek told the press soon after interviewing the men, "There is no question in my mind that these men have had a very terrifying experience."

Book about Pascagoula incident now in third printing

The experience was documented in a book written by Hickson and William Mendez called, "UFO: Contact at Pascagoula." The book, published in 1983, is in its third printing.

Since the Pascagoula incident was documented and investigated thoroughly and quickly, it is one that many UFO scientists and aficionados know well. Many Web sites devoted to UFO phenomena cite the 1973 Pascagoula abduction in detail.

Hickson in the last 30 years has traveled the world speaking about his experiences at universities, UFO conferences and other events and special engagements.

"They want to know would I describe what their craft looked like, what they looked like," Hickson said are some of the more common questions asked. "They want to know did they talk."

Hickson, 72, said he has been staying closer to home in the last few years, giving fewer speeches about his contact with aliens.

In his travels, Hickson has met quite a few authors, ufologists and astronomers who have sought his knowledge on extraterrestrials.

Hickson once gave a presentation in Mobile with Erich von Daniken, author of "Chariots of the Gods," on Daniken's insistence.

Interest ran high and after the presentation the two men were bombarded with questions.

"We couldn't get out of there," Hickson said.

He often speaks locally to school children.

"They ask sensible questions," Hickson said. "They seem really intelligent."

Hickson said educating young people about extraterrestrials is important since "they're the ones who've got to deal with these things."

Hickson said he has had other contacts with extraterrestrials, but did not want to elaborate since he is in the process of writing another book about those experiences.

"I'm not ready to talk about that yet," he said.

Hickson is also working on a book about his infantry platoon's experiences in Korea.

"I don't have much time to do anything now," he said.

Hickson said often around the anniversary of the abduction, he revisits the site at the mouth of the Pascagoula River.

"Usually, for the longest time, I would go back down there on that night with friends and talk about it," he said.

A documentary about Hickson's and Parker's experience has been filmed for public television for "Mississippi Roads." The video is in the editing stages. No date for airing has been set.

Hickson will have copies of his book available at a book signing on Oct. 21 at Lucedale Library. Books also are available at Wayne Lee's and Jerry Lee's grocery stores or from Hickson by calling him at 497-4753. Cost of the book is $20.

Lici Beveridge can be reached at 934-1475 or

lbeveridge@themississippipress.com.

[Quix]

THERE HAVE BEEN MANY REASONS OFFERED.

1) Fear of a WAR OF THE WORLDS sort of panic.

2) Crashing of religious and other social institutions holding the fabric of society together [some ET's claim to have created Jesus etc. and to offer 'holographic movie proof (i.e. well prepared hoax planned in the pit of hell) that Jesus was their creation and that The Cross and Resurrection did not occur as the historical Bible record reports.

3) NWO puppet masters have commandeered the info and technology for their own power mongering uses.

4) That for a long time the government felt they were getting a reasonable deal of technology in exchange for 'allowing' what they couldn't stop anyway--abductions and experimentation and hybrid breading stuff with the ET's. And that by the time the government realized they had been duped and that the ET's were not living up to their part of the bargain (such as reporting all of the victims etc by name etc), it was too late to do anything about it. Then the government types feared they would be held accountable and crucified for making a bad deal with the ET's etc.

5) That ET's have insisted on it with various threats. One that recently was in one of the posts on this thread was that the ET's would destroy the world instantly if the government didn't do it's utmost to suppress the info.

6) That the USA &/or the puppet masters hold over the advanced technology would be put much more at risk the more the info was outted, verified.

7) That the social gestalt/psyche/fabric of US CITIZENS could not stand the disclosure without mass insanity occurring--including mass suicides as well as rioting in the streets with accompanying damage to infrastructure.

8) That WWIII might be much more likely as other countries rebelled against supposed USA's RELATIVE monopoly on the advanced technologies involved.

I think that's a fair summary of the reasons given that I've come across.

Thanks for asking.

[auggy]

"OK, now you may flame all you want and send me foil caps, but my whole family, the maids, my immediate neighbors up on their roofs and hundreds of citizens downtown saw the same thing."

No flamin' here. I believe you. I personally have seen un-explained events myself. I have always felt kind of a chosen one, to have seen these strange happenings.

[Quix]

ARTHUR C CLARK CONTENDS MARS HAS VEGETATION.

I'm convinced that Arthur knows plenty about UFO's and has included part of what he knows in his novels and movie.

Anyway--here's something recent from him

from:

http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.nationalufocenter.com/news/printable.php%3Fid=138

---

Arthur C. Clarke says, “Mars has a case of the munchies. That is, the red planet is spotted with vegetation with some sort of life feasting on the foliage.” The noted sci-fi writer and space visionary, made the claim during the 2nd annual international conference on the space elevator, held in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Sir Arthur beamed into the gathering by satellite link on September 13, 2003.

When asked what destination he'd like to travel to via the space elevator, Clarke said he was "ready and willing" to journey to the red planet. "Mars is the obvious place," Clarke said. "I'm now quite convinced that Mars is infested with life. Mars orbiter photographs show huge areas of vegetation. I don't think there's any doubt anymore on that. And where there's vegetation, there will be something nibbling on it," he said.

Just as the audience was chewing on Clarke's Mars life view, he added yet another bit of speculative advice -- this time on cold fusion. "It's not cold. It's not fusion. It may be tepid fission or something," Clarke said. "Don't laugh…but there's something going on there. Thanks to Leonard David and Bruce Cornet

[Quix]

Feeling chosen is a very common response.

Some people supposedly in the know claim that the ET's and/or government

have the capacity to infect our minds and emotions with feelings, thoughts they desire us to have to achieve their ends.

I think I believe that to a point. I don't believe we are totally helpless victims in such regards. But i believe that if the ET's say, can get inside our defenses quickly enough and sort of lead us along like a skilled hypnotist can to a much more limited degree--that then they can do some remarkable things--IN PART because we are helping them along with our ideations so heavily under their influence and suggestions--whether by electromagnetic waves, spiritual entities, sophisticated suggestion or whatever combination.

[auggy]

"I think that's a fair summary of the reasons given that I've come across. "

That makes it alot easier to undestand why they would supress the UFO sightings and ET's.

I think #7 would be a very probable reason.

[Rokke]

"Perhaps you have a BETTER label for Billdo Clinton?"

In a Christian context, how about child of God. Incredibly flawed and full of sin, but child of God nonetheless.

[Quix]

I think #7 would depend on a LOT of factors.

A) the context of whatever else was going on in the world or had recently been going on. For example, right after 9/11--would have been more traumatic--depending on how the disclosures were implemented and what they contained.

B) The manner in which the disclosure was handled and by whom--totally by ET's or in concert with USA government or in concert with UN to exclusion of USA government; totally handled by USA GOV and boycotted by ET's; responded to by hostil or friendly ET phenomena . . . etc.

C) The content--ET's are wonderful saviors; Some are saviors; some are devils; some want to eat us; some want to farm us for biological products; some want to help us 'evolve.' etc.

D) How 'together' vs stressed and on the ropes were Americans feeling generally at that point in time as individuals; as a neighborhood; as a country.

E) How convincing were the contentions of the ET's; puppet masters; government types.

[Paulus Invictus]

Gosh, didn't I also say that balloons could not have done the maneuvers those objects made?

[Quix]

I believe he has behaved persistently and outrageously over decades to arrogantly flaunt the very idea of

A) A Christian context--with hypocrisy far worse than that of the worst pharisees of Jesus' time

B) being a child of God by behaving in virtually every way he can to demonstrate that he is much more in earnest a child of satan--willfully, freely, doggedly, persistently.

The very slight glimmer of hope might be that he seems to be much more a hedonist; selfish, greedy power monger and opportunist than Shrillery's chilling evil flowing out of her depths and bone marrow, every cell and fiber--defiantly, supremely arrogantly; supremely hypocritically; ruthlessly etc.

I think he is ruthless but she has a PhD in it. I think he is plenty evil but she virtually glories in it. I think he would have killed his own mother to get a head or get a good lay or just to satisfy some whim of glory or conquest. I think she would--out of power mongering greed, selfishness, arrogance, acting out her own megolamania as her own god--kill her own mother, father, brothers, sister, daughter and bar-B-Q them for the pleasure of lording the power over them and anyone watching.

She is as close to evil incarnate as anyone I've seen in public life since Manson and company or Dahlmer and company.

And, in many ways, she's worse because she goes about in white wash which seems to fool 30-40% of Americans.

About as far as I can go in the direction you suggest is to note that at a point in history--they were creatures made in God's image. They have sold whatever of that image may have remained with any will of it's own--long ago--she, at least--to the devil in exchange for raw tyrannical power and intimidation. He--close to the same.

IMHO.

[Quix]

Yes, which I noted and cheered, as I recall.

I cheered, praised your so noting it for others who might have been inclined to go

gahgah submissive over the balloon = UFO idea.

I wanted to highlight your excellent alertness and analysis which saw that point very quickly--that balloons could not have made those maneuvers AT ALL BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

WAS AND AM ON YOUR SIDE!

[potlatch]

I'm glad you wrote back Rokke, I was going to write you. I am Catholic and believe in my religion, and am not some kook. As I said, I am open minded.

I am not as good at quoting the Bible as many of you are. Does God say in the Bible that we are His only creations? Why is there gallaxy after gallaxy for creatures on one small earth? I am not being facetious, I want the answer.

Have you had, or know someone who has had what we might call 'supernatural' experiences, or in other words, unexplainable occurances? Many Christians would scoff at those too, but I know of 4 in my life.

[potlatch]

makes for an interesting hobby, at least.

LOL, we may have to call it just that, because of all those who absolutely refuse to give it any credense!!