Dump Social Security

[Lunatic Fringe]

I'm looking at my last paystub....

So far this year, the government has stolen from me $2,872 in Social Security deductions. They have given this money either to old people who did not have the forward thinking to plan for their own retirement, or to old people who planned retirement and don't need it. I could have used it myself. I could have spent it, or saved it, or used it for my college education. $2,872....

That's a lot of money! That's more than I have been able to contribute to my 401K this year. Social Security averages a return of -0.66% per year for participants. NEGATIVE return! My 401K has made 29.2% in 10 months. Yet, the government insists it can plan my retirement better than I can. Why should I trust the government to provide for my retirement? If that money were put into my 401K fund instead of bankrolling a broken social program, I would not have to worry about retiring... in fact, I could retire earlier! The great lie of Social Security is that it will supplement your retirement income. I can do better.

It is for this very reason that the government will not even consider abolishing Social Security. The government wants you to continue to work well into your late 60s (for us younger people, it will be early to mid 70s) so as to provide a base of income for other government programs... in other words, they need your taxes.

The federal government has become more paternalistic over the last century. They are convinced they know what is best for you. From education, to taxes, to retirement funds and morality laws, the government has adopted the dubious slogan, "We're the Federal Government, and we're here to help." They insist on applying one solution to every American. Social Security is a system that is destined for failure. So let's dump it.

For the first 20 years, it will be difficult. Laws would be required to give people the freedom to opt out of Social Security, but I imagine that in order to do so, individuals would be required to divert those normal Social Security deductions into a retirement fund. The American people will have to bite the bullet and fund a bankrupt program until current recipients die off.

People will be screwed, because a generation is going to have to go without Social Security after years of paying into it. It's inevitable- the money is already spent. So let it be the baby boomers, the generation that decided to spend the money to begin with. Gen X will not be able to afford it no matter what, so why not make the WWII generation the last generation of Social Security recipients? Government mandated retirement funds go against the very principles of capitalism and liberty. If I am 65 years old and have no money for retirement, that's my fault.

Opponents of Social Security reform will cry about the old people starving to death.

Tough... Families should take care of their elderly relatives if times are bad. We're are a much more industrialized and educated nation than we were in the 1930s, when Social Security was invented by the Great Socialist, FDR. Some people do not wish to retire. Many Americans are happy to work until the day they die, especially if they do what they love. We are capable of working for a lifetime, and funding our own retirement if we choose that as a life goal.

But the only way this will ever happen is if the younger generation demands it... old people vote in massive numbers to protect their Social Security. Young people will need to vote in massive numbers to abolish it.

[LADYAK]

Here in Alaska the State employees opted out of SSN in 1980...and also the University of Alaska. The money that would have gone into SSN is in a annuities that we manage. We can withdraw when we quit and pay a penalty or wait until 59 1/2....not sure how viable this fund will be later....but it has worked so far.

[pogo101]

I agree that Social Security should be phased out over a decade or two in favor of a Chilean-style forced savings plan with private accounts that, in the event of the accountholder's death, can be inherited. It's inexcusable that the current approach effectively steals from the young to overpay many of the elderly (anyone living past about 75 is getting all gravy), gives nearly nothing to those who die before retirement, etc.

[GeronL]

Many of those retiring today with their $1400, or less, a month?? Might have retired with a million bucks in the account. Is the system in Alaska competitive or ?

[concerned about politics]

...Old Order Amish, Rail Road Workers, certin police agencys and I am sure there are others that are exempt.

Any government job, I hear. I don't think government school Teachers have to pay SS. They get the same package as the politicians, I think. So, I'd assume all government workers get the same private package.
From what I gather, only the sheeple are stuck with the "common" SS system. You know, the ignorant, unwashed massess.

[DeepInEnemyTerritory]

See this link for a list of all employment situations that are Social Security tax exempt.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.09/handbook-toc09.html

[Abcdefg]

I am a RR worker and pay Tier 1 which is the same amount as SS. I also pay Tier 2, which is a bit less. I am supposed to be able to draw more than SS when I retire (at 60).

[Graybeard58]

I over looked the obvious. I don't pay SS tax. I retired in 1999 at age 54 and income that I receive from a private retirement plan is not taxed by SS. Neither do I pay state (Illinois) taxes on it.

[GeronL]

I don't think government school Teachers have to pay SS

Actually, its not as good as the regular federal workers. They complain about it all the time on the financial advice radio shows. Apparently the plans they made for teachers really stink, and they should thank their unions for them.

[Fantelina]

Come on now...cry a bit more.

What about the million of women and men who paid all their lives and never collected a dime.

You will benefit from their misfortune.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for you!

[Texas_Jarhead]

"I don't feel the least bit sorry for you!"

what in the hell are you talking about? I ain't looking for no sympathy from anyone.

I don't care to benefit from anyone else's misfortune and I don't care to burden future Americans with having to subsidize my old age. I do not care to benefit from the labor of 6 or more young Americans that they say will be required to support just a single retiree when I reach that age. I could take solace in the knowledge that 6 fewer Americans labor on my behalf.

[Texas_Jarhead]

Perhaps you thought that I posted this thread... If so, you are wrong.

[Texas_Jarhead]

Thanks for the link but I more interested in a total withdrawal from the entire program.

[tinamina]

The $2872 you contributed to Social Security/Medicare was matched by your employer. So actually $5744 was used for o purposes other than putting it away for your retirement. It went in the government's general fund, to spend as they see fit. This is why Dems don't want to see Social Security reform (they think it's their money) and another reason that our jobs are going to China and India, where your company can hire a person to do your job for the price of their contribution to FICA taxes on your behalf.

[DeepInEnemyTerritory]

I am not aware of any such option.

[lorrainer]

Did you know that insurance companies can FORCE you to apply for social security - well force is a bit harsh - they tell you that if you do not apply for social security, they are going to deduct the amount that social security would pay anyway.

Yes, "force" is a bit harsh. They used the word "required" with me. < /sarcasm > Talk about a shocker.

And if I go to my 401k to supplement our income (which is now all taken up with health insurance premiums), any disability insurance payments I get now would be further reduced by that amount. I am 44 now and have 20+ more years of this to look forward to.

And don't get me started on the process of qualifying for any of this. I had to continually tell them that no, I didn't qualify for SSI because I was not destitute. They really wanted to push that route--it must be much easier for them. Sheesh.

[quietolong]

I see so much of this!

[daddyOwe]

I too became disable at 38. I had 3 small children a mortgage and a annuity. I had been putting payroll deductions in a annuity for 15 yrs. When I became disabled the last thing I wanted was to apply for SSD. I kept thinking I was going to get better but I got worse. I tried going to work and ended up in the hospital on numerous ocasions. Well anyway I was turned down for SSD. It took 2 yrs of appeals and it seemed as soon as I depleted all my savings and annuities they approved me. In the meantime I lost all my credit my house and my own self esteem. SSD only pays me a small portion of what I would of been making.
Now I have learned to live on it. I do without and with my health ins. premiums I am paying over 800 dollars a month. It is not a situation I planned on being in, so I am thankful for SSD. I do take some care of my Mom by helping her pay her property taxes as otherwise she would not be able to afford her meds. My wife works to keep our heads above water but the money I had been putting aside for my sons educations was used for everyday living. There are some people who need the SS program but there are many govt. programs that abuse it. Especially what is given to the foreigners who come here and get the free ride for awhile. If I could of stayed working with the money I was putting away I would of had enough to retire at 55. That didnt happen. So it wasn't like I didnt plan. I did contribute to the fund and had a lot of SS deductions taken out of my pay. How about the ones that never put a nickle into the program that are getting SSI. They are the ones that get me.

[inquest]

How 'bout this: Require the SSA to inform SS contributors how much of the money they put in is going towards their own accounts, and how much is going to other people's accounts (or other purposes altogether). Let this whole process be open to some scrutiny.

[helper]

Thanks, I was just about to point that out. Most people don't realize how bad the SCAM really is.