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Are we at risk of losing our democratic form of government?
National Review (paper issue) | Dec. 22, 2003 | John O'Sullivan

Posted on 12/21/2003 8:26:09 AM PST by Clint Williams

In the latest National Review, John O'Sullivan writes, in "Debating Democracy: Can everyone go Athenian?" (pp.35-36, this is an excerpt from the paper copy):

"One. Democracy needs social, economic, and political underpinnings in order to flourish. These include the rule of law, a tradition of free speech and free inquiry, the concept of a loyal opposition, a private sector, and the development of a middle class used to making independent decisions.

Two. Democratic governments without these underpinnings tend to go off the rails. Zakaria* stresses the tendency of such governments to develop illiberal features - as in today's Russia. Sometimes democracy collapses altogether. Latin America and the Middle East furnish examples - Argentina, Brazil, Lebanon, Iraq - in which elected governments have been overthrown in military coups. ..."

(* "Conservative realist" Fareed Zakaria is author of "The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad," the excerpt is from a debate about the book.)


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democracy; freedom; freespeech; johnosullivan; law
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Looking at Zakaria's list, should one be concerned?

- The rule of law. One doesn't have to look far, or low, to find examples of judicial lawlessness. SCOTUS on the 1st Amendment, SCONJ on election laws, for just two examples. We no longer operate under a rule of law.

-A tradition of free speech. Gone. "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech." Yet Congress has done just that. And SCOTUS has upheld it (see "The Rule of Law").

- The concept of a loyal opposition. Died under the Clintons. For the Democrats there is absolutely nothing but winning. Look at all their electoral abuses in 2000, not just in Florida but elsewhere. All signs are that this is but the beginning. And look how Hillary readily engaged in treason just to advance her agenda. (Speculation: Would not the election of a President Hillary signal the end of fair elections? Elections at all? A temporary emergency becomes permanent. Such has happened before.)

- A private sector. Dying. Overtaxed and overregulated, with increasing demands for the government to supply the services. Look at the medical sector, for example.

- The development of a middle class used to making independent decisions. ...and living with the results. Slowly dying. And becoming ever more accustomed to living within increasingly more constraining laws. Look, for example, at how meekly gun owners allow increasing restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms. (Read the 2nd Amendment, see "The Rule of Law.") Or look at how the schools no longer teach independent thinking.

"Democratic governments without these underpinnings tend to go off the rails." Is the US on its way to going off the rails? These things happen slowly, in steps. We have seen it before:

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows.  Outside, in the streets, in the general community, "everyone is happy.  One hears no protest, and certainly sees none.  You know, in --- or --- there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in ---, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this.  In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say?  They say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an alarmist."

And part of "going off the rails" is the establishment of a professional ruling class. As a FReeper pointed out in an earlier discussion along this topic, we already have such a professional ruling class, one that is abusing the rules to preserve the power held by its members, as shown by this district map.

Again: "Democratic governments without these underpinnings tend to go off the rails." Is the US on its way to going off the rails? Or are things not so bad, I'm seeing things, I'm an alarmist?

1 posted on 12/21/2003 8:26:09 AM PST by Clint Williams
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To: Clint Williams
Are we at risk of losing our democratic form of government?

We are a representive republic.

2 posted on 12/21/2003 8:34:47 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Puppage
Democratically elected.
3 posted on 12/21/2003 8:37:46 AM PST by Clint Williams
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To: Puppage
How do we select our representatives smart ass.
4 posted on 12/21/2003 8:38:21 AM PST by DManA
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To: Clint Williams
Fareed Zakaria? You mean that leftist that sits opposite George Will on Stephanapolous' show?

His "list" reads like a socialist manifesto intended to slap at the Republicans, who are in control of the Executive and Legislative Branches.

I'll bet if you ask Fareed to give you a "model" government, he'd say we had it under Clinton.

5 posted on 12/21/2003 8:43:03 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: DManA
How do we select our representatives smart ass.

Oh, how nice of you....that was an EXTREMELY intelligent remark. Read your HISTORY. It is & has ALWAYS BEEN a representive republic. BTW....just WHERE in my post do you detect any "smartness", hmmm?

6 posted on 12/21/2003 8:43:05 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Clint Williams
bump for later study - interesting - enlightning!
7 posted on 12/21/2003 8:43:56 AM PST by steplock (www.FOCUS.GOHOTSPRINGS.com)
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To: DManA
punk....cheap shot.
8 posted on 12/21/2003 8:44:26 AM PST by cars for sale
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To: DManA
Ya might wanna go here.....scroll down a bit. Pay particular attention to the DIFFERENCE between a democracy & a representitive republic.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=4

Are you home from school? Ya might wanna ask for your money back.

Now THAT was a smartass remark.

9 posted on 12/21/2003 8:47:52 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: DManA; Puppage
Uncalled-for remark. The Minnesota cold must be freezing your couth.

Leni

10 posted on 12/21/2003 8:48:34 AM PST by MinuteGal (Florida Freepers! Go to Fla. chapter forum for important announcements on chapter re-organization!)
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To: MinuteGal
Oh, I see. So, his calling me a smartass WAS called for, hmm? BTW, I m not in MN.
11 posted on 12/21/2003 8:53:42 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Clint Williams
Democracy, as a defined term, does not exist anywhere on this planet. Almost everybody has an idealized vision of "democracy", but the definition varies so much from person to person, that no all-inclusive and universally acceptable concept can be identified. The meaning is elastic enough to cover anything from total anarchy to the most rigid (but elected) totalitarian regime known to mankind.
12 posted on 12/21/2003 8:59:11 AM PST by alloysteel
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To: sinkspur
Fareed Zakaria? You mean that leftist that sits opposite George Will on Stephanapolous' show?

I have no idea. I don't watch the "toob."

The name, description, et al, is from John O'Sullivan's piece in National Review. As is the list of underpinnings of a democratic form of government -- a list that seems generally reasonable enough, no matter who wrote it. Or are you saying that the list cannot stand on its own merits, we must first consider who wrote it?

13 posted on 12/21/2003 9:13:32 AM PST by Clint Williams
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To: Puppage
Agreed, and it wasn't very nice of him. But there is a point here -- is our form of government intact and fulfilling its purpose if our representatives are a class unto themselves? Or appointed by der Fuehrer to represent us?

(And with that, I'm away for a few hours...)

14 posted on 12/21/2003 9:17:11 AM PST by Clint Williams
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To: Clint Williams
Are we at risk of losing our democratic form of government?

The risk is that the nation becomes a democracy.

15 posted on 12/21/2003 9:21:01 AM PST by MosesKnows
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To: alloysteel
I think democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting
on "What is the dinner menu?".
16 posted on 12/21/2003 9:22:20 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Hillary Al-Muscovy (If it waddles like a Russian duck, Quacks like a Russian duck etc))
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To: MosesKnows
You are right . The other possibility: If a socialist
congress is ever elected again, plus a socialist president,
a miltary takeover could occur in reaction.
17 posted on 12/21/2003 9:30:33 AM PST by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
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To: Clint Williams
A tradition of free speech. Gone. "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech." Yet Congress has done just that. And SCOTUS has upheld it (see "The Rule of Law").

you can try this one out right here at good ole free republic - just try a search on the name Dick Simkanin!

18 posted on 12/21/2003 9:30:37 AM PST by patriot_wes
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To: Puppage
Puppage, the usage here on FR is for a reply to be directed to the first name....the second name connotes someone you are flagging to also read the comment.

Note that is says "To 4" under my reply. This shows I am replying to comment #4, which was not yours.

I hope this clears up your misunderstanding. I'm on your side, LOL.

Leni

19 posted on 12/21/2003 9:40:21 AM PST by MinuteGal (Florida Freepers! Go to Fla. chapter forum for important announcements on chapter re-organization!)
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To: Puppage
The US began as a republic.

Is it still one?

There is a FReeper with a tagline that says something like:"We're sorry Mr Franklin, we couldn't keep it"

Regards
SkyRat
20 posted on 12/21/2003 10:10:35 AM PST by SkyRat (If privacy wasn't of value, we wouldn't have doors on bathrooms.)
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