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The Economics of the Civil War
LewRockwell.com ^ | January 13, 2004 | Mark Thornton and Robert Ekelund

Posted on 01/13/2004 9:01:35 AM PST by Aurelius

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To: hirn_man
Mob rule can't take a state out of the Union.

What mob rule? The seceding states voted in convention to leave.

641 posted on 01/20/2004 4:48:58 PM PST by 4CJ (||) Dialing 911 doesn't stop a crime - a .45 does. (||)
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To: hirn_man
If you have free elections you have to abide by them or you don't have a country.

Exactly where in he Constitution does it state that elections results mandate a state remaining in the union?

642 posted on 01/20/2004 4:51:56 PM PST by 4CJ (||) Dialing 911 doesn't stop a crime - a .45 does. (||)
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To: Aurelius
The Republicans who came to power in 1860 supported a mercantilist economic agenda of protectionism, inflation, public works, and big government. High tariffs would have been a boon to manufacturing and mining in the north, but would have been paid largely by those in the export-oriented agriculture economy.

Perhaps the strategy was to use economic weapons to crush the south's unfair edge in the marketplace -- slave labor.

643 posted on 01/20/2004 4:53:32 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: Aurelius
Big Confederate government...

And Howard Dean is that Candidate!

644 posted on 01/20/2004 4:55:00 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
and in the eyes of many people the power to suspend the writ was one of those powers

Is that so? Then you should be able to name any given one of these "many people" who believed this, excluding of course the Lincoln administration itself, which invented the "power" for obvious reasons.

Why, Congress, of course.

When they refunded Andrew Jackson's $1,000 fine with interest. Heck, he wasn't even president when he suspended the Writ.

Now, you're going to explain how Jackson was going to get in touch with Congress and get them to suspend the Writ--- there being no telegraph of course --- in time to forestall the British forces on the door step of New Orleans?

Walt

645 posted on 01/20/2004 4:58:59 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: nolu chan
They proclaimed the blockade lawful under THE LAWS OF WAR.

They proclaimed the actions of the president lawful under the Militia Act.

Walt

646 posted on 01/20/2004 5:02:27 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
What about all those people of those states that wanted to remain in the Union? Did they suddenly become not Americans of the United type?

Or was it unanimous approval? I think not.

50% + 1 is mob rule whether it is at the national, the local, or the state level. Its ok for electing leaders, its not ok in all instances.

Or do we live in a democracy?
647 posted on 01/20/2004 5:04:11 PM PST by hirn_man
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
From Merriam-Webster

Main Entry: reb·el
Pronunciation: 're-b&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French rebelle, from Latin rebellis, from re- + bellum war, from Old Latin duellum
Date: 14th century
1 a : opposing or taking arms against a government or ruler b : of or relating to rebels
2 : DISOBEDIENT, REBELLIOUS

Jefferson Davis took up arms against the lawful government.

Just pondering.

648 posted on 01/20/2004 6:07:04 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: aristeides
So Taney's decision was no more ex parte than decisions of courts are today when one party forfeits the case by failing to appear.

Let's alert the Supreme Court, shall we? Maybe they'll get the Circuit Court to rename the decision.

649 posted on 01/20/2004 6:08:43 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: GOPcapitalist
Now what was that you said about Article I being silent again?

Where does it say that habeas corpus may be suspended only through legislation?

650 posted on 01/20/2004 6:10:06 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: WhiskeyPapa
When they refunded Andrew Jackson's $1,000 fine with interest. Heck, he wasn't even president when he suspended the Writ.

Would that Lincoln could have obeyed the judge like Andrew Jackson eventually did. On paying the fine in New Orleans for having suspended to writ illegally, Jackson said:

Considering obedience to the laws, even when we think them unjustly applied, is the first duty of the citizen, and I do not hesitate to comply with the sentence you have heard pronounced; and I entreat you to remember the example I have given you of respectful submission to the administration of justice.

Didn't Congress remit Jackson's fine when he was about to become president a decade or more after he paid the fine?

651 posted on 01/20/2004 6:38:57 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: aristeides
If I had been president, I would have followed Seward's advice. And there would have been no war.

That is an interesting comment.

IIRC Secretary of State Seward also wanted to gin up a conflict with Great Britain as a means of preserving the Union. So by following Seward's advice there would have been a war, just not a civil war.

652 posted on 01/20/2004 7:08:09 PM PST by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
When they refunded Andrew Jackson's $1,000 fine with interest.

Legislative acts of Congress do not overturn judicial decisions.

653 posted on 01/20/2004 7:53:13 PM PST by 4CJ (||) Dialing 911 doesn't stop a crime - a .45 does. (||)
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To: exmarine
The fact is, I need to research it further myself - taking all of the info into account - before I can form a position.

Good. Even the Supreme Court could only invent a decision based upon this being a "more perfect union" - they could not find any provision preventing secession. The founders, every single one in the federal and state conventions that voted to ratify, was a secessionist.

654 posted on 01/20/2004 7:57:07 PM PST by 4CJ (||) Dialing 911 doesn't stop a crime - a .45 does. (||)
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To: GOPcapitalist; hirn_man
Ronald Reagan is a Californian. Why would you want him to lose his constitutionaly gaurenteed right to a republican form of government?

Alexander Hamilton opined during the debates that even a monarchy was "republician" if voted to that position. In Federalist no. 78 he wrote that it is the 'fundamental principle of republican government, which admits the right of the people to alter or abolish the established Constitution, whenever they find it inconsistent with their happiness.' Hamilton was a New Yorker, and agreed with his state regarding the resumption of powers.

655 posted on 01/20/2004 8:06:33 PM PST by 4CJ (||) Dialing 911 doesn't stop a crime - a .45 does. (||)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Where does it say that habeas corpus may be suspended only through legislation?

Article I, Section 1. More specifically, it says that it may only be suspended by Congress, which implied by necessity an act of legislation.

656 posted on 01/20/2004 8:17:03 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Why, Congress, of course.

Give the names and provide the quote where they said somebody else could suspend it.

When they refunded Andrew Jackson's $1,000 fine with interest.

Jackson wasn't president and a simple refund of his fine does not make his act legal after the fact.

657 posted on 01/20/2004 8:19:06 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: the invisib1e hand
Perhaps the strategy was to use economic weapons to crush the south's unfair edge in the marketplace -- slave labor.

That makes for a fancy excuse, but not economic sense. The yankee protectionists in 1860 said not a word about using economics to defeat slavery, nor did they likely even understand that much. Their entire message was nothing more than the following: we need government to help us overcome competition from abroad.

As for the south's alleged "unfair edge," it was becoming anything but that. In 1860 slavery was becoming increasingly less viable in an economic sense. Wage labor costs were going down and slave labor costs were going up - a trend that had been occurring for at least a decade. When prices on an economic input continually rise entrepreneurs eventually substitute it with a cheaper alternative.

658 posted on 01/20/2004 8:24:44 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Walt, hopelessly misinformed again] They proclaimed the actions of the president lawful under the Militia Act.

WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID:

THE QUESTION:

Mr. Justice GRIER.

There are certain propositions of law which must necessarily affect the ultimate decision of these cases, and many others, which it will be proper to discuss and decide before we notice the special facts peculiar to each.

They are, 1st. Had the President a right to institute a blockade of ports in possession of persons in armed rebellion against the Government, on the principles of international law, as known and acknowledged among civilized States?

THE SUPREME COURT RULING ON THAT QUESTION:

On this first question therefore we are of the opinion that the President had a right, jure belli, to institute a blockade of ports in possession of the States in rebellion, which neutrals are bound to regard.

"The president had a right, jure belli...."

The president had a right pursuant to the laws of war....

Stop waving your dicta all over the place. It is unseemly and calls attention to your shortcomings.

659 posted on 01/21/2004 12:25:04 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: GOPcapitalist
No... explain how Jackson was going to get in touch with the Congress and ask them to suspend the Writ -- with no telegraph and the Brits on the doorstep.

Jackson did the right thing. President Lincoln did the right thing.

Walt

660 posted on 01/21/2004 1:30:40 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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