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Wholly Cow!
1 posted on 03/01/2004 2:08:46 PM PST by vannrox
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To: vannrox

Mars used to have water!!!!

Details at 11! ;)
2 posted on 03/01/2004 2:11:59 PM PST by smith288 (http://www.ejsmithweb.com/FR/JohnKerry/)
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To: vannrox
It's turning into quite an interesting year. And I don't mean that in reference to the Chinese curse.
3 posted on 03/01/2004 2:13:36 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian (Shake Hands with the Serpent: Poetry by Charles Lipsig aka Celtjew http://books.lulu.com/lipsig)
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To: vannrox
I can't help noticing that every Mars Rover story has to mention the price of the mission.
4 posted on 03/01/2004 2:15:35 PM PST by Batrachian
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To: vannrox


7 posted on 03/01/2004 2:25:33 PM PST by NautiNurse (Missing Iraqi botulinum toxin? Look at John Kerry's face)
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To: vannrox
Pity it wasn't gold they found, resulting in another rush.

...really could've used the vacated space.

8 posted on 03/01/2004 2:28:59 PM PST by Landru (Indulgences: 2 for a buck.)
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To: vannrox; Phil V.; Piltdown_Woman; FireTrack; Monty22; wirestripper; Indie; Djarum; RightWhale; ...
Phil, can you plunk your magic twanger (your ping list)? I've pinged a bunch, but I know I've missed plenty.

I was about to post this article, when I found it had already been posted (I searched for it before posting).

Moving right along...

My WAG is that they're playing the "limited hang-out" gambit and will not 'fess up to the obvious evidence of life found by the rovers, but will make great hay over the (already known) water.

What will (IMO) be new will be the revelation that there is liquid water in the immediate sub-surface region. One implication would be that the earlier satellite data of massive amounts of sub-surface water -- in the form of permafrost -- will have to be revised. This would mean that it could be fairly trivial to sink a shallow well and draw up liquid water. Whether it's sweetwater or "brine" is yet to be determined.

My theory is that the bitter cold temperatures reported in the Martian air are meaningless WRT the ground temperature. Some time ago it was reported that there was a dramatic air temperature gradient, with the air at the surface level being very warm, IIRC in the 70 deg. F range.

The extremely thin Martian air would be a very poor conductor, so, it would not be very effective at bleeding off the ground heat either by conduction or convection.

Meanwhile, the ground would continue to soak up heat from the Sun, and retain it. If there is residual heat from the core, it could contribute to maintaining the heat. In essence, it would be sort of a "greenhouse effect", only based in the soil, rather than the atmosphere.

A "warm, wet Mars" from the ground level on down could easily be teeming with life. (And, those "blueberries" might actually be turds afterall!)

11 posted on 03/01/2004 2:33:52 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: vannrox
I don't care. I won't care about it until they announce that Klingons and Vulcans live on the planet.
14 posted on 03/01/2004 2:37:51 PM PST by GulliverSwift (Keep the <a href="http://www.johnkerry.com/">gigolo</a> out of the White House!)
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To: vannrox
Wholly Cow!

I wish you wouldn't say that. It is very offensive to us Hindu followers.

If you said "tasty cow," that would be different.

15 posted on 03/01/2004 2:38:44 PM PST by GulliverSwift (Keep the <a href="http://www.johnkerry.com/">gigolo</a> out of the White House!)
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To: vannrox
What a perfect place for a Palestinian State.
17 posted on 03/01/2004 2:43:47 PM PST by aynrandfreak (If 9/11 didn't change you, you're a bad human being)
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To: vannrox
Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.

Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
18 posted on 03/01/2004 2:47:03 PM PST by null and void (Same as it ever was...)
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To: vannrox
My scuba regulator is in for service right now. Am I being a little too optimistic about the possibilities of Martian Cave Diving?
25 posted on 03/01/2004 3:16:41 PM PST by Tallguy (Cannot rate this Reserve Freepers fitness: Not observed on this thread.)
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To: vannrox
It's either "Kerry leads Edwards in Martian Caucus" or "Rover Finds Evidence of Ancient Martian Gay Weddings."
26 posted on 03/01/2004 3:30:45 PM PST by Boss_Jim_Gettys (I am one of Bush's henchmen.)
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To: vannrox
A SPACE.com story Sunday revealed a "palpable buzz" among rover scientists at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, from where the rover mission is run. Sources indicated that a coherent picture of the geology of the rover landing sites was emerging.

I'm not impressed with the way they ran over the Mars rabbit and RATed into smithereens an interesting morphology!

27 posted on 03/01/2004 3:36:04 PM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: vannrox
NASA to Announce 'Significant Findings' of Water on Mars Tuesday....


29 posted on 03/01/2004 3:56:13 PM PST by jaz.357 (Liberals fund the problems they seek to solve so that they can justify taxing you to fund them.)
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To: vannrox
Dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide) looks a lot like ice..
Who says the ice caps are ice and not dry ice or a mix of both...

anybody KNOW... am asking because this error would not be a SMALL error...

31 posted on 03/01/2004 4:09:34 PM PST by hosepipe
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To: vannrox
Two Words: Sea Monkeys.
45 posted on 03/01/2004 5:07:27 PM PST by searchandrecovery (Justice is the final pillar to fall.)
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To: vannrox
Few scientists doubt that Mars was once warmer and wet.
Maybe most scientists smoke dope.

Mars' atmospheric pressure is the same as would be found at 40 miles altitude on Earth. Liquid water can only exist for short periods, probably due to impact, less possibly due to volcanism, and then only in the presence of water vapor from the same source (the permafrost) which would provide the required denser atmosphere in a transitory way.
Water Gushed 'Recently' on Mars, Experts Say
by Maggie Fox
Feb 20 2002
If the water comes from a geothermal source, similar to geysers on Earth, that would mean a source of both heat and water on a planet where the average temperature on the surface of Mars is far below freezing. It stays so cold on Mars that everything should be frozen hard to the depth of several miles.
Mars Becomes Warm And Wet For Brief Periods
by Victor R. Baker
23-Jul-2001
Confronted by Viking images of young fluvial and glacial features on Mars -- stream valleys that apparently were formed by precipitation and glacial features over large areas of the planet, Baker, Robert G. Strom and other UA scientists in 1991 theorized what has become known as the "MEGAOUTFLO" model. Basically, the hypothesis says that over the long term, water and volatiles remain frozen as ground ice and ground water in the subsurface because Mars is so distant from the sun and extremely cold. The perennially frozen permafrost acts like a cap on a soda bottle. And just as gas and water in a capped soda bottle explode when heated, sporadic bursts of internal planetary heat trigger the dramatic release of gas and water locked under the permafrost.
We also have to remember that the only reason NASA et al wants so desperately to find water on Mars is to justify bankrolling human missions to Mars. One obvious step in proving the concept of going to Mars and back with humans is a sample return mission, but Viking already found microbial life in the soil. NASA denied it then, and continues to deny it now.
New research discounts Mars ocean evidence
by Jeff Foust
April 7 2001
In a paper published in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature, planetary scientists at the University of Arizona and MIT said that features in images of the planet previously thought to be remains of ancient shorelines are more likely linked to the planet's volcanoes. Paul Withers of the University of Arizona and Gregory Neumann of MIT decided to reexamine the MOLA data for some of the paleoshoreline features identified in the earlier work. They found, though, a closer correlation between the features and tectonic activity than any processes related to the formation of shorelines. According to Withers, the key piece of evidence was the terraces identified in the earlier study. Instead, those features are more likely tectonic stress ridges created by massive volcanism earlier in the planet's history.

46 posted on 03/01/2004 5:22:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Permanent human presence on the Moon? Yes. ISS? No. STS? Gotta go.)
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To: vannrox
We have plainly seen many things that seem to be puching the envelope for a "dead" world. I noticed that the announcement did not include a biologist...

Don't be surprised if we see some pics tomorrow that have not been released yet!
47 posted on 03/01/2004 5:29:27 PM PST by djf
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To: vannrox
"The main question is whether any of that water remains at the surface in liquid form."

It would be very doubtful.

With an average temperature of munus 60 degrees F water would not be around in liquid form.

With an atmospheric pressure of between 4 and 8 millibars, (Earth's atmospheric sea-level pressure is 1,000 millibars) water's boiling point and freezing points get within 8 degrees (F) of each other.

Good luck finding any water at all!

49 posted on 03/01/2004 5:52:48 PM PST by nightdriver
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To: vannrox

58 posted on 03/01/2004 6:22:08 PM PST by DaughterofEve (W)
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