Angry cries of America's 'outsourced' middle class

The Arizona Republic ^ | 03.09.04 | E.J. Montini

[FITZ]

But these two points have always been the case. This is nothing new.

I think the difference is that those places might have hired the pretty 16 year old but before they were outsourced, the factory would be more interested in the other guy. It used to be anyone who wanted to get ahead could pretty much do so by getting some kind of job --- not all as salesclerks. The ordinary guy could make it in this country --- you didn't have to be extremely skilled or extremely anything. They also didn't have to compete with every third world peon for their job.

[Texasforever]

The ordinary guy could make it in this country --- you didn't have to be extremely skilled or extremely anything.

Millions upon millions of ordinary "guys" are doing it every day of the week. However they are the ones that aren't whining to the government to "save their jobs".

They also didn't have to compete with every third world peon for their job.

No in the not so distant past they were competing with slaves, then Chinese coolies, then the Irish immigrants, and on and on and on.

[FITZ]

It's people like you who always condemn the ordinary American who is fearing joblessness, laughing at them for not wanting to work like a Chinese slave --- you can't tell me that Americans don't want to work --- I was walking down the hall at college tonight --- and an older American-type woman was on her cell phone carrying books to class --- excitingly telling someone she just found out she finally got a job. The look on her face told a lot.

[Texasforever]

It's people like you who always condemn the ordinary American who is fearing joblessness, laughing at them for not wanting to work like a Chinese slave --- you can't tell me that Americans don't want to work --- I was walking down the hall at college tonight --- and an older American-type woman was on her cell phone carrying books to class --- excitingly telling someone she just found out she finally got a job. The look on her face told a lot.

I have no sympathy with those that sit on an Internet forum crying "poor me". You are right I am a hardhearted SOB that believes that anyone wanting to work works and those that don't gripe. Sorry.

[nopardons]

It really all depends upon what exactly you mean by "make it".

Men and boys, with no educations worked in coal mines for extremely low wages. They also worked in abattoirs and steel plants and manufacturing plants.

How far back do you want to go?

Up until very recently,most people didn't have more than one bathroom, and I'm talking about only 50 years ago.They didn't have more than one T.V. set. Kids didn't want 100 dollar(or the equivalent ) sneakers.

For all of the moaning and groaning, on FR, about outsourcing and H1B workers, there ARE plenty of jobs out theres and not low paying ones.

[Texasforever]

There is NO excuse for any able bodied American to be sitting on their butts crying about "outsourcing".

[nopardons]

I'm with you!

My daughter is a head hunter. She places IT people. There are,as of today, four hundred IT jobs to be filled, by here office.

What there is a dearth of,is qualified,pleasant people, to take these jobs. The salaries are compensate to the job description and NOT what people in India get.

[FITZ]

In this town there are definitely not plenty of jobs --- 14,000 lost their jobs in the 90's, many were women in their 40s and 50s and many have never worked again and those that work now work for minimum wage --- down from that $8 to $10 an hour they once made. The only jobs are in health care and education --- both very government subsidized obviously. Those are the major employment opportunities. Who supports those not working? When only 33% of the population has private healthcare --- as is the case here, who pays the health care costs of the rest?

[nopardons]

THEN MOVE!

I have absolutely NO sympathy for people who refuse to go get a job,no matter WHAT it takes, but moan and groan instead.

Who's to pay for their health insurance? THEM! You sound like a Democrat!

Guess what...............my huszband has had to pay for our health insurances, since we've been married.

[FITZ]

Kids didn't want 100 dollar(or the equivalent ) sneakers.

Those $100 sneakers are made in China --- kind of ironic --- back in those days you're talking about the shoes did go for far less and were often made in the USA.

[nopardons]

Picky, picky.

What era are you talking about? Give me a clue...50 years ago,100 years ago, 15o years ago, 20 years ago? WHEN?

[FITZ]

Maybe you don't work --- I do and it's ME that pays. The democrats don't pay. I'm working so I also pay for all those living off NAFTA-TAA and TAA --- those big new welfare programs added for NAFTA (for the "displaced workers"). It was better when they were working --- making their $8 an hour plus insurance.

[Texasforever]

Like I said, you can't inject facts into this debate. If facts were all that was needed, debate would be unnecessary.

[nopardons]

I don't work, but I have.

I pay too..........what, my husband's money isn't mine?

Now it's NAFTA?

Look, this thread is yet another damned IT whinge and whine. It's bogus! THERE ARE PLENTY OF IT JOBS AVAILABLE!

My daughter has NEVER been this busy.

[nopardons]

I can not express how sick and tired I am of the constant whinging, here, about how nobody with IT skills can get a job because of outsourcing and H1B workers.

Every day,EVERY SINGLE DAY, Monday through Friday, my daughter rants at me, about how busy she is, how many morons are out there, who lie on their resumes, who refuse to take a job in another state, but who claim that they haven't worked in two years, who can't do an interview, but demand the job anyway, and on and on and on.

If these IT guys & gals can't get a job, it's their own fault;the jobs are out there and begging to be filled!

[Texasforever]

You are seeing what 44 billion dollars in union funding for Kerry can do on FR.

[nopardons]

And don't forget Soros' money.

[FITZ]

I work and always have and I most likely always will --- but I don't know if you've actually gone out looking for a job in the last few years yourself --- I realize you may not need to --- but if you did need to? There are people who are finding it quite difficult ---- people who have worked all their lives and yes I realize they should all be studying computer programming and database administration--- but some had jobs to work and families to spend time with. It's true some people are pretty average --- in skills and ability but they should be working.

The way I judge is how well government spending on welfare type programs is doing --- when there are enough well paying jobs then there should be some vast cutting of the many welfare programs --- it looks to me like the government is spending quite a bit more on those than at any time in the past.

[Texasforever]

The way I judge is how well government spending on welfare type programs is doing --- when there are enough well paying jobs then there should be some vast cutting of the many welfare programs

Fitz welfare spending is the lowest it has been since the LBJ Great society years. That is a fact. We are both from Texas and you should know this. Not only are welfare case loads down, Texas welfare benefits are less than any large state in the union.

[nopardons]

What do you want...socialism?

Where have you been? Welfare has been cut enormously!

I son't need to work, I haven't had a job, as you mean it, for decades. If I had to, I'd get a job and I have absolutely NO computer skills at all.People,wwho claim that they can't get a job 1) aren't looking 2)have NO skills at all 3)think that they're worth more than they are 4)refuse do do anything to help themselves 5) just like to complain.

You need a job? Then you do what it takes to get one. It's as simple as that. You move, you take a cut in pay, you go to night school if you have to.

What is so difficult to understand about this?