America no longer white, united, English-speaking

The Miami Herald ^ | 02 April 2004 | Patrick J. Buchanan

[William Terrell]

The Mexican area was settled by Indians in America after the continents separated to look pretty much as they do? Mexicans don't look very much like a full-blooded American Indians. They look more like the people in South America.

As you travel across the Texas border the people change. As you travel down into Mexico and on through Guatemala and Honduras and on into South America, the people look the same.

[cyborg]

sobering post... when I enlisted in the air force, my recruiter asked me what I wanted to put down as my ethnicity. I asked him why, and he said just in case you get killed and we have to identify you. Sheesh. Does it really matter at that point. If it doesn't matter when I die, why should it matter now????

[William Terrell]

"Hispanic" is a modern word with too aggregate a meaning following more or less political correctness.

Well, now, in spite of your presumptions, I care if a man is 1) in this country legally 2) he works and produces 3) he speaks English and 4) he is willing to immerse himself in America swear allegiance to it. I do have a problem with making citizens of the births of illegal immigrant mothers.

I too was in the Marines, and I too was in armed conflict and, I too was injured, so you can take your insinuations, make a obelisk, and sit on it.

El Gato. Are you in this country legally? Where is your allegiance?

[Torie]

The first Amerindians came during the last ice age, and there was a land bridge where the Bering Sea currently sits, since the oceans were lower. That's the theory anyway.

[FITZ]

The word Hispanic (His-pan-ic: big word meaning of or related to Spain or Spanish speaking countries) refers to a person's nationality (na-tion-al-i-ty: big word meaning what country or part of the world your family comes from).

What country? What nationality? It doesn't look to me that's how that word is used.

[FITZ]

since the North American Amerindians learned English from the Anglo-Saxon settlers of North America, Americans were never "white" either.

What's a hispanic who learned English then? Especially if they never learned Spanish? What's a Mennonite from Casas Grandeswho speaks fluent Spanish and holds only Mexican citizenship? What is Vicente Fox? Since Spaniards are generally referred to as "Europeans" and not "hispanic" and his ethnic heritage is European Spanish and Irish --- then does he count as a "hispanic"?

[cyborg]

very interesting points

[FITZ]

I can stand a Dutch woman next to an Italian woman and see the obvious differences.

What if the Dutch woman is a brunette --- there are some --- and the Italian woman is a fair skinned blonde with blue-eyes? I was actually surprised to meet an Egyptian woman --- directly from Egypt with brown hair, pale green eyes and freckles.

[FITZ]

I know --- actually Mexico has many different "ethnic" groups --- I don't really believe in the concept of "race". Even among the Indians or Native North and South Americans there were many different ethnicities, different tribes. A Cherokee Indian and a Mayan Indian would have almost nothing in common.

[cyborg]

There are brown haired Dutch, blue eyed Italians, and Africans that are white...I don't know if someone can say a certain look is associated with a lot of places anymore except maybe places like China and Japan, and not even Japan from what my sister says (she lives there).

[FITZ]

I've seen dark skinned brunettes and fair skinned tow-headed blonds who were full siblings. I know a set of twins where one looks as "mexicano" as can be and the twin sister is blue eyed blonde --- and the parents call her the "anglita" --- she could easily pass for Dutch or German but her brother not so easily. I knew Dutch immigrants --- grew up in Holland who were very dark-skinned with jet-black hair --- all they said was they were Dutch --- I don't know if they had other ancestry --- maybe from the slave trade days or some other Dutch colonies. But they were Dutch and spoke only that language when they first arrived.

[FITZ]

I know a "hispanic" guy who was asked fairly often if he was Japanese when he was in the service--- and he thought that was hysterical because he had a different stereotype of Japanese --- short, slanted eyes, not hairy--- which he isn't --- but someone from Japan even told him that in Japan there is a tall and hairier type of person -- more European looking and that he did look just like one of them.

[cyborg]

To me, race is very political and the concept of race and how someone looks is really outdated. More than anything culture is what is really on people's minds.

[Luis Gonzalez]

FITZ...are you making the argument that Hispanics are the indigenous people to the area that he's talking about?

In every single thread, you come in bringing up an exception to whatever comment I make.

There are exceptions to every thing FITZ, BUT THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY ARE CALLED EXCEPTIONS!

If you found a blond, blue eyed Egyptian, then that's an exception, and an obvious product of some sort of migration, because there were not indigenous blond haired, blue eyed people in Egypt, and there were no blond haired, blue eyed Amerindians before the arrival of the Europeans in the Americas.

[FITZ]

are you making the argument that Hispanics are the indigenous people to the area that he's talking about?

Not even close. The Cherokee Indians were obviously never "hispanic", the Mayan, Azteca, Zacatecan, etc Indians were never "hispanic" until after Spain took over Mexico. Mexican Indians might now be called "hispanic" and go along with that label if they come to the USA --- but "hispanic" isn't really much used even in the so-called "hispanic" countries.

[FITZ]

If you found a blond, blue eyed Egyptian, then that's an exception, and an obvious product of some sort of migration, because there were not indigenous blond haired, blue eyed people in Egypt

I don't know --- I have met very few Egyptians --- and since all people originally came from either North Africa or the Middle East it's more like it was migration out but intermarriage and mixing of tribes and people has always happened so it's very likely Europeans traveled to North Africa and vice versa. This woman only claimed to be Egyptian and said there are others who are fair-skinned in that country but since I know fair skinned Lebanese also I think maybe they were always in that region.

[stainlessbanner]

bttt

[FITZ]

In every single thread, you come in bringing up an exception to whatever comment I make.

Well --- it is about debate and we tend to be on opposite sides of this issue --- sort of --- although at times I think we'd come down to the same belief that if welfare handouts were ended that much of the problem would be mostly gone. I just disagree with the whole concept of race so was pointing that out. I don't think the Indians were ever some united race --- but all different tribes with different characteristics and cultures --- just like the people of Africa and Europe and Asia are --- and the same goes for that new category we call "hispanics" --- they don't come from the same country, race, class, or other --- I know "hispanics" born and raised in the Midwest who think it's weird that I can tolerate living on the border because they think it's awful and they couldn't wait to return to the Midwest -- to their more Ted Nugent lifestyle -- hunting and fishing --- but I don't know why they're even referred to as that because they don't speak Spanish and aren't from a hispanic country. I was laughing with a "hispanic" border patrol agent the other day who was also born in the Midwest who was just briefly transferred to the Northeast and people thought he was a Mexican --- but he has some Texas "tejano" roots I guess because his family had some of those old Spanish land grants.

[Jorge]

America no longer white, united, English-speaking
The Miami Herald ^ | 02 April 2004 | Patrick J. Buchanan

If it means we will be hearing less from Pat Buchanan, then I'm all for it.

[jamaly]

I think Pat just described the rise and fall of the United States of America. He isn't a racist. He just wants immigrants to come here legally and assimilate. The great melting pot is no longer. We have groups of hypenated americans who prefer not to be plain americans. They want their own cultures to predominate. A house divided cannot stand, or United we stand, divided we fall. The USA will crumble from within in another hundred years.

Well said!

Both my family and my husband's family have been in America so long that we really aren't sure where they came from. It doesn't matter in the slightest because they did not cling to "the old world". They adapted to America and raised they children and all future generations to be proud Americans. Sadly, that isn't happening today. It truly is the Balkanization of America.