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Disturbing video from Iraq
CNN? ^ | unknown | CNN?

Posted on 04/27/2004 7:25:37 AM PDT by Joe Brower

Please excuse the vanity post, but a Swedish fellow I've been debating with for the last year over the conflict in Iraq sent me this Windows media file as proof of "war crimes" committed by our troops in the recent fighting.

CLICK HERE for the video clip.

I could use input on this particular event, if anyone has any context in which this clip could be put into. We all know how the media, combined with modern video technology, can make anything look like anything, and I could use some information to use against this and what it seems to portray.

Thanks,

Joe Brower


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: iraq; marines; shooting
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1 posted on 04/27/2004 7:25:38 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: Joe Brower
How is it a war crime to kill someone who was shooting at you?
2 posted on 04/27/2004 7:28:52 AM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (John F-ing Kerry??? NO... F-ING... WAY!!!)
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To: Joe Brower
Lokks like they used two different incidents, it also looked like they fired out in the field further from the rolling wounded.

I would call for an investigation of this clip through
Accuracy in Media.
http://www.aim.org/

Ops4 God Bless America!
3 posted on 04/27/2004 7:30:22 AM PDT by OPS4
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To: Joe Brower
Where's the alleged "war crime?"
4 posted on 04/27/2004 7:30:51 AM PDT by m87339 (If you could see what a drag it is to be you)
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To: Joe Brower
There's no way to tell what this guy did to get shot in the 1st place.(I'm guessing it was something that showed the soldiers he was the enemy.)
5 posted on 04/27/2004 7:31:00 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: Joe Brower
BTW, if you watch the ticker tape, you can see that this clip was heavily edited. What was your friend afraid that others would see?
6 posted on 04/27/2004 7:31:16 AM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (John F-ing Kerry??? NO... F-ING... WAY!!!)
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To: Joe Brower
Dear Joe,

You asked for context, it is impossible to ascertain. Was this guy wounded while attacking the marines? A noncombatant? If he is still moving around and has a weapon then he is still a threat and shooting him again is good policy. I can't tell if he had a weapon or if he was capable of continued action but the marines felt he was so they smoked him.
7 posted on 04/27/2004 7:31:48 AM PDT by reluctantwarrior (Strength and Honor, just call me Buzzkill for short......)
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To: Joe Brower
Link doesn't open for me.

If it were real evidence cnn would be playing it wall-to-wall 24/7 wouldn't they??
8 posted on 04/27/2004 7:31:48 AM PDT by null and void (Tinfoil is my friend)
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To: Joe Brower
The most dangerous thing in the world is to take on a Marine in a battle zone. All that proves is an enemy soldier died after being shot. And since you don't know where the shot came from, there's no way to know who fired the fatal shot. You swedish friend is grasping at straws.
9 posted on 04/27/2004 7:31:59 AM PDT by theDentist (JOHN KERRY never saw a TAX he would not HIKE !)
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To: Joe Brower
“Hell yeah, that was awesome! Let’s do it again!”

That’s exactly the reaction I would have if I killed one of thousands of bastards trying to kill me and my friends and brothers.

Hell yeah.

10 posted on 04/27/2004 7:32:07 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Joe Brower
Ive seen the clip but ive also heard that dead bodies in iraq have a disturbing tendency to set up and fire weapons.

That one wont.
11 posted on 04/27/2004 7:32:35 AM PDT by cripplecreek (you tell em i'm commin.... and hells commin with me.)
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To: Joe Brower
That Iraqi put up more of a fight than the VC that Kerry killed in Vietnam.
12 posted on 04/27/2004 7:32:36 AM PDT by counterpunch (<-CLICK HERE for my CARTOONS)
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To: Joe Brower
If that's the best he has...fugetaboutit.

The interview was edited.
The video starts at the end, not the beginning of the fight, kinda like the Rodney King video.
13 posted on 04/27/2004 7:32:57 AM PDT by stylin19a (it's only called golf because all the other 4 letter words were taken)
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To: dead
Remeber 9-11 and our Men like Pat Tillman, the video however looks doctored to me. They look like two different incidents, edited together.
Ops4 God BLess America!
14 posted on 04/27/2004 7:33:39 AM PDT by OPS4
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To: Joe Brower
Why was the tape edited so much and what acts did the wounded man engage in before he was shot?

There is more here than meets the eye.
15 posted on 04/27/2004 7:35:13 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (So you're a feminist - isn't that cute!)
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To: Joe Brower
I see a bad guy getting shot. What's the problem?
16 posted on 04/27/2004 7:35:20 AM PDT by William McKinley
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To: Joe Brower
Watch the scrolling text at the bottom of the screen. You will see very clearly that the video has been spliced at two points. Once while the man is on the ground and once while interviewng the soldier. Creative editing. There is no telling what was really going on, what the news correspondent said or even whether the interview with the soldier had anything whatsoever to do with that incident (which is extremely unlikely.)
17 posted on 04/27/2004 7:35:32 AM PDT by Avenger
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To: Joe Brower
If this guy was a combatant and the shooter was a sniper the sniper would have hit him once then again if he had to. Likely from a secure spot far away. Not up close like this where the guy could have thrown a grenade or shot back suddenly.

In fact, in Iraq, some American snipers have shot to injure then shot to kill. It makes a point.

These guys did nothing different than what a sniper would have. Just closer.

Moral of the story? It's a f'ng war. Don't kill American kids. It pisses their friends off.

18 posted on 04/27/2004 7:35:46 AM PDT by isthisnickcool (I'm isthisnickcool, and I approved this post!)
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To: OPS4
CNN fails to call attention to the dead guys rifle laying right behind him.
19 posted on 04/27/2004 7:36:27 AM PDT by JIM O
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To: isthisnickcool
Don't kill American kids. It pisses their friends off.

Very well put.

20 posted on 04/27/2004 7:37:02 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Joe Brower
I would tell your Swedish friend that you cant really comment on the clip until you see the whole unedited news report. The ticker at the bottom of the screen skips twice.
21 posted on 04/27/2004 7:38:21 AM PDT by CougarGA7 (If medals and ribbons are interchangable then why can't you buy replacement medals at the BX?)
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To: Joe Brower
This was looked into back then. He was shot when trying to put out an IED. The Marines could then go get him while under fire from his fellow terrorists or let him suffer. I for one am not going out to get a wounded terrorist who was shot while attempting to kill me or my buddies. Put him out of his misery. Tough choices, but f****** with Marines is very risky business. The CNN camera man could have gone out to get this P.O.S. just as easily, but didn't because of risk. (That should tell you alot about the situation out there that day.)And as far as the Marine having remorse, Marines are warriors, not the usual prey of terrorist, who specialize in attacking defenseless women and children. Hence, this P.O.S. was sent to hell. Terrorists want jihad and martyrdom. Marines are happy, literally happy, to oblige.
22 posted on 04/27/2004 7:39:32 AM PDT by JeeperFreeper
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To: Joe Brower
Looks like a perfect head shot to me. If you do not have the stomach for it dont't watch. For some of us it much needed therapy.My only regret is that the American public that screams "gettem" is so sterilized to REAL violence that they could cringe at the sight. You have to understand that this IS war.
23 posted on 04/27/2004 7:41:37 AM PDT by ping jockey (it only takes $.13 to do the job correctly.)
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To: ping jockey
Enemy combatant.
24 posted on 04/27/2004 7:43:19 AM PDT by oolatec
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To: Joe Brower
Bump for later.
25 posted on 04/27/2004 7:45:18 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Guys like John Kerry spit on guys like me. I've been waiting 33 years to spit back.")
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To: null and void
Use Explorer.

Without context the scene is totally meaningless.

As usual, CNN is appealing strictly to emotion. And seeing that terrorist scum earn his reward was emotionally gratifying. Thanks CNN & USMC.

26 posted on 04/27/2004 7:46:48 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Joe Brower
Tell you Swedish friend that our soldiers are subject to rules, laws, and morals, and are punished when caught.

Then ask him if Saddam and Sons were?

There are numerous examples of the strict rules our soldiers are under, and some have been punished. (to my distress)

We need no propaganda video to tell us that the USA is a nation built on the rule of law.
27 posted on 04/27/2004 7:47:28 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: Joe Brower
See if you can get him to source the video. It's obviously "Edited for Content".
28 posted on 04/27/2004 7:47:41 AM PDT by WTSand
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To: Joe Brower
I think you should link to a copy of the AP video from Fallujah where the insurgents killed 4 non-military and then the local civilians desecrated their bodies.

"War is hell", William Tecumseh Sherman.
29 posted on 04/27/2004 7:48:17 AM PDT by mondoman
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To: Joe Brower
I did a bit of research online about this. It seems that the Iraqi (or foreign terrorist, who knows?) was in the act of ambushing Marines with a roadside bomb. If you look closely in the beginning of the video you can see in his right hand what someone on another forum suggests may be a detonator.

Now I am not suggesting that the Marines in question took all of this into account. Very possibly they saw an enemy and simply killed him. In point of fact the entire clip of the shooting takes about 10 seconds. Not a lot of time for thinking. And we have no idea whatsoever of what preceded this.

There is some good discussion of this on a lefty website here including comments by serving military.

30 posted on 04/27/2004 7:49:32 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (06/07/04 - 1000 days since 09/11/01)
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To: Joe Brower
There's a rifle next to the dead combatant.

I don't see any war crime here, just a dead man who was trying to kill our boys.

Don't mess with the Marines, and you won't get killed.

31 posted on 04/27/2004 7:50:03 AM PDT by Strider
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To: Joe Brower
The only thing that's disturbing is that someone wants us to pass judgement or re-evaluate our stance based on this sophmoric attempt at editing.

"God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't." General George S. Patton
32 posted on 04/27/2004 7:51:58 AM PDT by Patriot Hooligan
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To: Joe Brower
Give the man a medal.
An army's job is to kill people and break things.

These Muslims should learn a lesson that we are not pounding in hard enough:
"Don't make us come over there..."
33 posted on 04/27/2004 7:53:21 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Joe Brower
Where there's war, there's war crime. No matter which side, or what war.

It's impossible to control every single soldier on the ground, especially when things get tough.
The general aim of the Geneva Conventions is to keep the overall circumstances of organized people killing each other as "humane" as possible. That has succeeded so far in Iraq -- even though you will find people here (civilians) advocating Oradour- or Lidice-style massacres if it comes to hotbeds of resistance like Falluja. Thank God American military leadership is smarter than that.
34 posted on 04/27/2004 7:54:47 AM PDT by qwertz
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To: Joe Brower
Ask your friend if he would have been as offended to see a young Marine shot in the same fashion by one of the Islamofascists.
35 posted on 04/27/2004 7:57:15 AM PDT by Right Angler
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To: Joe Brower
The clip is only 26 seconds long. What was the Iraqi fellow doing before he was wounded? My guess is that he was taking pot shots at the Marines. I'm sure he wasn't just strolling through the hot zones for laughs....
36 posted on 04/27/2004 7:57:36 AM PDT by b4its2late (It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere.)
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To: Joe Brower
This video originated from a Jihadi website that advocates the overthrow of democracies, I dont even need to see it to know it. I disproved it to them and got CNN's legal dogs on them for it. One of the first clues to its authenticity is the voiceover, CNN does not have a voice that matches that, Christiane Amanpour is the closest.
The second thing to notice is the spray from the bullet, it shows it as towards the "shooter" at a slight angle inconsistent with a shot originating from the marine. Secondly where was the loud report? A camera man that close to the marine would have picked up a loud bang. The ticker on the bottom also springs forward. All in all the video smirks of Michael Moore creativity and propensity to lie.
37 posted on 04/27/2004 7:58:23 AM PDT by aft_lizard (I actually Voted for John Kerry before I voted against Him)
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To: Joe Brower
...this Windows media file as proof of "war crimes" committed by our troops in the recent fighting

No. This Windows media file is proof of shiitey editing.

38 posted on 04/27/2004 8:04:40 AM PDT by Jagdgewehr
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To: aft_lizard
One of the first clues to its authenticity is the voiceover, CNN does not have a voice that matches that, Christiane Amanpour is the closest.

It sounds like Candi Crowley.

This guy was thickly clothed. He could have had an explosive corset strapped to his body. Given the way our guys have been killed ... by remotely detonated explosives ... there's too much risk in approaching and securing any known enemy combatant.

39 posted on 04/27/2004 8:05:07 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: Joe Brower
Nice shot!
40 posted on 04/27/2004 8:08:28 AM PDT by Blzbba
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To: Joe Brower
So what - this lucky devil is in his heaven with his 72 virgins, CNN should congratulate the soldiers for helping this poor schmuck get to his promised land
41 posted on 04/27/2004 8:08:51 AM PDT by The Louiswu (I am a - 40-something White, Republican and proud of it!)
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To: Joe Brower
I could use input on this particular event, if anyone has any context in which this clip could be put into. We all know how the media, combined with modern video technology, can make anything look like anything, and I could use some information to use against this and what it seems to portray.

Your friendly neighborhood troubleshooter is here to help. I looked up the transcript of this report, and found it. That's Candy Crowley reporting, and the story was originally broadcast on the Paula Zahn show, on 11/07/2003. Anyway, here's a transcript of the full story, including the stuff that was edited out.

Copyright 2003 Cable News Network
All Rights Reserved

CNN

SHOW: PAULA ZAHN NOW 20:00

November 7, 2003 Friday

Transcript # 110700CN.V99

...

ZAHN: A TV movie showdown this weekend. Later on in the hour, we're going to see how "The Elizabeth Smart Story" stacks up against "Saving Private Lynch."

And rock n' roll as a Cold War weapon. Did music bring down the Iron Curtain?

And Monday, President Bush professes his faith openly, but it wasn't always that way. We'll see how religion influences policy.

Turning, though, now to Iraq, yesterday, we told you about the American soldier who was so shaken by the sight of a dead Iraqi killed in front of him, he had to seek counseling and briefly faced cowardice charges. But it's a sight the U.S. troops have seen thousands of times over.

Killing is just part of their job description, as Candy Crowley tells us in a report that contains some graphic images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): General George Patton said, the object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his.

ANTHONY RIDDLE, U.S. MARINE, IRAQ: Before war, you're thinking, oh, I can deal with that. That's nothing. I'm a Marine. I can handle it.

CROWLEY: Now, Sergeant Anthony Riddle is starting to live with having to kill.

RIDDLE: When their eyes are open, staring right at you, half the faces are missing ...

CROWLEY: He had killed in battle before, but not like this. Not so close.

RIDDLE: Looking at the body just sitting there. And then we were told, hey. We've got to pull the bodies out.

And that's when it really hit me. When we pulled them out and their heads hit the ground and just total lifeless. Nothing going on with that body.

And I had to walk away. I mean, I was like, I can't handle this no more.

CROWLEY: To kill in war is to run the gamut of emotions.

U.S. Marines, Sergeant Riddle's team, searching an industrial area near Baghdad. Along the road, they encounter Iraqis who point their AK-47s at the Marines.

RIDDLE: One of my guys got up on his hood and took the first guy out, shot him right in the heart. And he dropped instantly.

CROWLEY: Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to his gun. The Marines kill him -- then cheer.

RIDDLE: Like, man, you guys are dead now, you know. But it was a good feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes!

CROWLEY: When the battle is over and you are still standing, the adrenalin rush is huge.

RIDDLE: I mean, afterwards you're like, hell, yeah, that was awesome. Let's do it again.

CROWLEY: Inexplicable to some, but not to generations of veterans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And the Pentagon says it is taking unprecedented steps to identify service members struggling to cope with what they have seen in Iraq or done. That includes screening them for possible mental health problems.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


42 posted on 04/27/2004 8:09:20 AM PDT by general_re (Rehab is for quitters.)
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To: Joe Brower
Whats disturbing about it?
43 posted on 04/27/2004 8:09:32 AM PDT by Little Ray (John Ffing sKerry: Just a gigolo!)
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To: Joe Brower
The context could be to compare the (un-edited) clips and pictures of the four American contractors who were burned drug through the streets, dismembered and hung from a bridge while working to secure food delivery for Iraq.

Compare that to a full clip of what the Iraqi writhing on the road was doing prior to being shot. War and it's consequences is not for the faint of heart....our soldiers and their actions cannot be dissected via biased CNN video clips. They are there to accomplish an objective and they need our support to do so. Not some liberal daily spin comparing Iraq to Vietnam or some such nonsense.
44 posted on 04/27/2004 8:10:01 AM PDT by all4one ("...a politician is to be judged by the animosities he excites among his opponents" Sir W. Churchill)
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To: Joe Brower
Looks like pretty good shooting to me. One less bad guy.
45 posted on 04/27/2004 8:10:09 AM PDT by MJM59
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To: general_re
Wanted to highlight one other part that was left out of the clever editing...

U.S. Marines, Sergeant Riddle's team, searching an industrial area near Baghdad. Along the road, they encounter Iraqis who point their AK-47s at the Marines.

RIDDLE: One of my guys got up on his hood and took the first guy out, shot him right in the heart. And he dropped instantly.

CROWLEY: Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to his gun. The Marines kill him -- then cheer.


46 posted on 04/27/2004 8:11:39 AM PDT by general_re (Rehab is for quitters.)
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To: Joe Brower
bttt
47 posted on 04/27/2004 8:11:54 AM PDT by Born Conservative (It really sucks when your 15 minutes of fame comes AFTER you're gone...)
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To: Joe Brower
Did I miss something here? Are we STILL at WAR? Is this video supposed to show a WAR crime? What the hell is wrong with people. Do they think that this is a video game with options to make bad guys less lethal once they are wounded? I guess they just want a 'reset' button.
48 posted on 04/27/2004 8:15:51 AM PDT by PISANO (Our troops...... will NOT tire...will NOT falter.....and WILL NOT FAIL!!!)
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To: Little Ray
"Whats disturbing about it?"

How this video seeks to portray our troops as bloodthirsty killers of civilians.

No, I don't beleive it either, which is why I posted it here for analysis and comment.

49 posted on 04/27/2004 8:16:25 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: Joe Brower
All I can say is DAMN GOOD SHOT!!!! One less insurgent to kill an American man or woman!!! He looked like a millitary age man to me. Fair game. This is war.
50 posted on 04/27/2004 8:20:31 AM PDT by ChinaThreat
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