Marines Prepare for Fallujah Pull Back (Fox Reports NO PEACE DEAL in Fallujah)

AP ^ | Thu, Apr 29, 2004 | Jayson Keyser

[ZULU]

Bush is all fouled up here.

We went into Iraq because the government there was threatening our national security and that of the entire western world. We didn't go there to "liberate" the Iraqi people. That was a secondary positive consequence of our invasion. We have an obligation to make sure that ALL anti-American elements there are either totally crushed or so cowed by our military forces that they are afraid to show themselves in public. If we have to make life miserable for Iraqis in the process, too bad. THEIR former leader made life misearble for us, and threatened us first.

Apparently we haven't accomplished our objectives, and not because of any failings on the part of American troops, or even of support at home, but because the current Administration is afraid of alientating elements in Iraq wo really aren't our friends anyway.

We have reason to believe that WMD may be in Fallujah, the Fallujans have collectively thumbed their noses at us, they have killed American civilians and muilitated and disgraced their bodies on international television, they have been sending terrorists into Syria and receiving terrorist agents from all over the Arab world, they are the center of a well-directed insurgency movement in Iraq.

After making threats we refused to carry out, NEGOTIATING a cease fire with criminal elements that refused to honor it, we are pulling out and turning control over to an Iraqi military which has demonstrated its inability to function effectively, an Iraqi military led by a former general of the Saddam regime??? We are apparently doing this at the direction of a group of people whose government, once touted as a military giant, we toppled in a matter of weeks???

What's going ON here??

Bush is making us look like fools.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. His father was a total foreign policy idiot and it looks like the son, despite bluster and thunder, when the chips are down, crumbles like a cheap deck of cards.

Caving in to the demands of terrorists and their fellow travelers will only make things even worse than if we hadn't gone there in the first place.

Right now, I'd be plenty steamed at Bush if I were carrying a rifle over there, or if I were the friend or relative of an American soldier killed or wounded there.

This entire epsiode indicates the Bush Administration is torn within and is not operating on the same wavelength over there. Its very ominous for our people over there and for the U.S. in general in the future.

[af_vet_1981]

This is the same crap that went on in Viet Nam. It's proportional response all over again. The CINC has to make the decision to go get the bad guys. When he makes the tough decision he's been backed by the American People.

Yes, we need leaders who will fight as if this is a real war. I'm sick and tired of Americans dying for leaders who won't fight.

[happygrl]

We can be fairly certain that there are booby traps and ambushes set throughout the city. Eventually, somebody is going to have to go in and do a "house to house" to clear the city. I'd just as soon send the Iraqi army in first and let them get some on the job training. If it doesn't work out, we can say that we tried... and then level the place.

Your analysis and plan gets my vote.

It's time that the Iraqis shed some of their own blood for the liberation of their country.

[Jim Noble]

This entire epsiode indicates the Bush Administration is torn within

That is the most charitable explanation.

[af_vet_1981]

We went into Iraq because the government there was threatening our national security and that of the entire western world. We didn't go there to "liberate" the Iraqi people. That was a secondary positive consequence of our invasion. We have an obligation to make sure that ALL anti-American elements there are either totally crushed or so cowed by our military forces that they are afraid to show themselves in public. If we have to make life miserable for Iraqis in the process, too bad. THEIR former leader made life misearble for us, and threatened us first.
Apparently we haven't accomplished our objectives, and not because of any failings on the part of American troops, or even of support at home, but because the current Administration is afraid of alientating elements in Iraq wo really aren't our friends anyway.

You nailed it. I don't know if it is Sanchez, AbuZaid, Rumsfeld, Cheney, or Bush, but the buck stops with Bush. He is responsible for not taking Fallujah after Americans were mutilated, dragged throught the streets, and hung from the bridge. That is akin to a national rape. Remember what the American people did with Dukakis when he was unable to articulate a cogent response to a theoretical rape of his wife.

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

I've decided to settle down and wait out the news on Fallujah. We seem to be getting jerked around by the media on what is going on. That's a real shock. </sarcasm>

I've decided to be of good cheer and go back to having faith in the CINC.

Oh yeah, God Bless and hold safe the men and women who allow me to second guess every move from the warmth and safety of my key board.

[ZULU]

I have been an ardent Bush supporter until now.

If he allows this idiocy over Fallujah to continue, I may very well sit out the election.

The only thing Bush has going for him right now is the guy he is running against is a bigger fool than he is.

I doubt if Runsfeld or Cheny is to blame here. I even doubt if the military commanders over there are to blame.

If I had to finger ANYONE, it would Colin Powell and the U.S. State Department, repeating the same mistake they conned Bush I into after Persian Gulf I.

Its a funny thing about garbage. If you don't clean it all up the first or second time around, it builds up again - in spades.

And you are right about the Fallujah incident. It was as incendiary to public opinion here as was 9-11.

I feel like scraping the Bush stickers off my cars.

[veryconernedamerican]

not sure this is real, snipers are still in the city picking them off, and we are still bombing, too early
to tell much about the situation. the only thing that is for sure is the powers that be think the loses they would take in a direct assault would be too high and prefer to pick them off from the air.

[TomasUSMC]

Vietnam again. We win the battle and lose the war. President Bush is going to see his numbers go way down now.
You let Americans get butchered, let our Marines die in vain, pull out in the face of a weak cowardly evil enemy, you just replay Nam Nam Nam.

The Clock is on the enemies side.
We have now found they have SA16 SAMs, they have rockets with ranges of 10 miles, they are working on Chemical munitions, better communication equipment is flooding to the enemy.

And it will get worse because the enemy sees the US as backing away. When we pound them with 2000 and 1000 pound bombs, Specter Gunships, Marine Snipers and they survive and we retreat, THAT EMBOLDENS THEM.

Today 8 soldiers were killed by a mine. EIGHT! For what. So we can mark their bravery by retreating in the face of scum?

Deterrence is the only way to solve this problem. Take Fallujah, and THEN hand it over, after you have made sure everyone on earth knows who WON and who was annihilated. Then make a statement that the next time we will just drop a MOAB or two or three.

Everytime there is a mine attack, go to an unfriendly bathist neighborhood and raze 20 blocks. Word will get out. "Don't let anybody plant anymore mines, or the Americans will raze your entire stinking neighborhood".

You can't build up Democracy until you first tear down Islam.

[happygrl]

Chief Wiggles did a lot of interrogation of prisoners and he suggested there were several generals who would be a great help to us but we didn't take him up on his suggestions. Some of them helped us even though they were in captivity. Maybe these are the generals they are talking about.

I remember those posts on his blog. They were quite emotional in that he had found some good guys caught up in the nightmare that was Saddam's Iraq.

I trust we are using these men now.

[taxed2death]

Let's see, we spill American soldiers blood to get Saddam and the B'athists out of power, now we cut a deal with Saddams' same henchmen.

Pretzel logic.

Next dumb move was Rummys' "war-lite" 50% less fat routine and the "put your guns down and go home" policy.

I much prefer the Powell doctrine.

GWB is all about CYA right now. To think otherwise is simply delusional.

[Destro]

I have a feeling that when Fallujah is turned over to the new Iraqi military - it will become a hot bead for the enemy.

[Coop]

Let's see, after reading your explanation I am forced to admit...

That still has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen in weeks.

[taxed2death]

Ok slappy, you're right, I'm wrong. The Powell doctrine totally sucked.....;)

[arjay]

How much information do you have on what is happening in Fallujah right now?

From where have you gotten that information?

Do you trust the source of that information?

Is it possible that Bush and the Generals have better information than you have?

Could it be that the Generals have plans and operations the press knows nothing about?

Is it possible that folks can be overreacting to events without having sufficient reliable information on which to act?

I submit that it is easy for us to sit over here with third and fourth hand information from an totally unreliable press and question the decisions of the administration. The Bush administration may be wrong, but they may also be right.

Isn't it a little early to be coming to such rash conclusions?

[af_vet_1981]

I have been an ardent Bush supporter until now.

I am still a Bush supporter. My vote in not in question. I just want him to fight. I want a President who will lead and fight. Kill our enemies. This generation in the Middle East will never love us. They must fear us enough so they do not take up arms, WMD, or allow terrorists any sanctuary in their countries.

[veryconernedamerican]

we have time, we can play the waiting game, and pick them off as they come out of their holes. the less we can be reached while still killing them the better, no reason for foot soldiers here, drones, helicopters snipers and precision bombers will do the work with less american loss of life. they need to know we can engage and kill them effectively without them even being able to get a shot off.

[af_vet_1981]

I much prefer the Powell doctrine.

Maybe you can get Powell to prefer it too.

Not that I blame him for the current ceasefire. That blame lies with others.

[af_vet_1981]

we have time, we can play the waiting game,

No we cannot play the waiting game. This is a war and we must be perceived as the unconditional victors. The doctrine should be overwhelming force applied against any opposition. They unconditionally surrender or they all die. Within the week.

[af_vet_1981]

I have a feeling that when Fallujah is turned over to the new Iraqi military - it will become a hot bead for the enemy.

A feeling ?

Why not subcontract the military operations to the French while we are at it ? They are adept at ceasefires, compromises, and surrenders.

I hear a former regime leader is out of work. You could bring back Saddam and he would control Fallujah ...

Give any innocents three days to leave and after that, raze the city. Kill any insurgent who does not unconditionally surrender. Build a single memorial to the fallen Americans and let the city remain uninhabited as a reminder to the Middle East what will happen should they allow evildoers to lynch Americans in their cities without lifting a finger to help.