"The Vatican and all other religious bodies
have no business interfering in political matters....
They should lose their tax deductions and register as lobbists
or stay out of secular affairs."
Posted on 05/14/2004 12:00:50 PM PDT by NYer
The church would appear to me to be better off without the likes of Kerry. He is only using it for his own ends.
Politicians have been allowed to call themselves "Catholic" purely for the purpose of getting the Catholic vote, while they flout major tenets of the Catholic faith. They wanted to use the Catholic Church's good name as a political tool, while at the same time they were not in good standing with the Church because they refuse to agree to the beliefs required by the Church. This is hypocritical in the most basic sense.
Now they have to fish or cut bait, no more working both sides of the street and serving two masters. Of COURSE the more stubborn ones (like JF'nKerry) are trying to call it a "separation of church and state" issue! They want to keep on getting all the benefits of "being Catholic" with the old Catholic voting bloc, while not actually believing the teachings of the Church. (St. Paul said that those who go to communion unbelieving "eat and drink their own damnation." It's telling that these politicians value votes more than their immortal souls.)
One time a friend of mine, who happens to be Deaf and a God-fearing Christian, was attending a Catholic Church Mass. When it was time for communion, she went forward like others around her. The person giving the communion REFUSED her and she turned around and went back to her seat wondering what she had done wrong.
BUT JOHN KERRY CAN TAKE COMMUNION?!!! And Catholics don't care, I guess.
A perfect, and succinct, expression of Modernism. Catholicism: Christ reveals the truth through the Church, and we join ourselves to Christ by joining the Church. Modernism: We join a church in order to express what we wish to believe.
The Catholic Church believes that abortion is murder. John Kerry and his wife both support abortion and take money from the abortion lobby--a major corporate sponsor for the Democratic party. Fine. But don't publicly stand up and receive the Eucharist, pose for the camera, and proclaim that you are a Catholic. It would further break down our faith if we elected a man who said he was a Catholic to the most visible job in the world and he was, essentially, a spokesperson for murder. He is not a real Catholic. He is a cafeteria Catholic only. He can believe what he wants but he should not be allowed to use the Catholic Church for political purposes. Kerry wants to have it both ways AGAIN.
The decision to gas Jews was POLITICAL decision. I hope you will remember this the next time you feel the urge to criticize any Pope, priests, bishops, ministers, or other religious people, for supposedly not saying or doing enough to oppose the gassing of Jews. I hope that you regularly criticize Rev. M.L. King for his constant interference in the POLITICAL choice many states made to practice racial discrimination. Gassing Jews: A POLITICAL decision. Racial discrimination: A POLITICAL decision. Permitting abortion: A POLITICAL decision. Burning down churches and shooting priests: A POLITICAL decision.
Nonsense. You are not advocating separation of Church and State, you are advocating the supremacy of the State. Please read William Buckley's latest column. The Church has every right to establish the circumstance and principles with which it confers privileges to its members.
What private beliefs and decisions a Catholic holds and makes are between him and God. So the Church will not interrogate the person receiving the Eucharist. But a political leader makes public comments and decisions. And when those fly in the face of Church teaching a message is sent to the Faithful. If the Church acquiesces then the message is that its teaching is optional. In a Church and faith that believes in a judgement and individual responsibility the problem is one of misleading the Faithful to a way of life on which they alone will be judged.
As to other policies of the Church like war and death penalty. These are policies, not articles of faith. Abortion to a practicing Catholic is the taking of innocent life. To acquiesce if in a position to stop it peacefully is immoral and sinful. To celebrate it as a fundamental right is, for a Catholic, sacrilegious.
If John Kerry believes, as he says he does, in the Catholic teaching on abortion, then he believes it is the taking of human life. This is not fish on Friday. It is not even the belief in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This is real world, real victims. If John Kerry or any Catholic politician believes the Church's teaching on abortion then he cannot separate the public and the private. It would be condoning murder because the murderer does not feel the humanity of the victim as you do. We had a situation like this once before in America. The battle between slavery and abolition. That too was a religious struggle
Sorry to disappoint you, but the Church doesn't have the cajones to take on Kerry with this prior to the election. He will be given a pass from the Church, in part because they have lost their moral standing because of the abuse by the priests.
"BUT JOHN KERRY CAN TAKE COMMUNION?!!! And Catholics don't care, I guess."
Yes, we do care . . .
LOL!
Actually, it is not an uncommon thing for a Catholic not to be properly disposed to receive Holy Communion. Such has been the case with me more than a few times, sinner that I am.
When a Catholic is not in a spiritual state to receive Communion (because he has not observed the Eucharistic fast; or because he is burdened by a serious sin on his soul; or even when the person has an honestly perplexed conscience about a serious matter) the proper thing to do is to refrain from receiving Communion, and to seek Confession and repentance to restore a state of grace.
The Church teaches that if you are not in a state of grace, going to Communion is an act of Eucharistic sacrilege: a very serious thing. Very serious.
It is like the kiss of Judas. Communion, like a kiss, is supposed to bring you into loving contact with the Lord; but if you are a betrayer, it just brings horror which, if you had the spiritual eyes to see it, would appall you to the depths of your heart.
The Catholic Church has first amendment rights as much as anyone or any other institution has. Her ministers have every right to express their opinion on any and all matters, including social matters and political matters, and moreover, have every single right to establish whatever rules and doctrines she wishes regarding the practice and belief of those who wish to be considered Catholics. When someone like Kerry deliberately distorts what the Church teaches and promotes the grave sin of abortion, the Church has every right to deny him communion. Your trying to say she does not is itself a denial of the right of free speech, religion and assembly that is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
So any act that was not condemned by a pope prior to to 1900 is morally licit?
LOL! Who can forget that KING size Bible he carried around that was in pristine condition!!!!?
Tax exempt status has always been an acknowledgememnt by our government that organized religion is a
major major major major major major major
benefit to our one nation under God and our society.
So much so that churches pay no taxes - by law.
You simply do not understand the facts here.
A man is choosing to participate as a member of the Church. The Church has membership requirements (with receiving communion being the ultimate sign of full membership). One of the membership rquirements is to not be an unrepentant public sinner. When someone does not meet membership requirements, they are not afforded the privileges of membership.
No politics involved. Which is why this issue has been ignored up until now because the Church did not want this public pissing match.
It is the snarling in-your-face whining and politicization of communion by hisexellencybishop John Faux Kerry that politicized his own choice to ignore the membership rules while demanding membership privileges.
There has never been an absolute "right" to receive communion.
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