Posted on 05/18/2004 8:49:57 AM PDT by Jane_N
Rehashing the Racak hoax, renders your whole argument moot.
"#3 & #4 predate Racak."
The Document I posted was in response to your: "Your sources are ignoring facts upon the ground, being that there were 350,000 refugees in Kosovo prior to NATO's commencing Allied Force." This document quotes reports submitted by the German Foreign Office prior to the war, which is what this whole "conversation" was about to start with. Please re-read your own posts before replying as you were the one that stated the 350,000 refugee figure prior to NATO's attack.
As to your personal attack: "How do I get a refund for the time I've wasted on you?" well, no one is forcing you to reply, you don't like it than too bad...I personally do not see my replies to you as waste of time but instead as opportunities to enlighten.
And if you want to talk about Racak, find someone else. I've wasted too much time on too many individuals who cling to the myriad of Serb nationalist 'hoax' hoaxes long after the evidence has made fools of them.
From #6:
"Single instances of excessive acts of violence against the civil population, e.g. in Racak, have, in world opinion, been laid at the feet of the Serbian side and have aroused great indignation. But the number and frequency of such excesses do not warrant the conclusion that every Albanian living in Kosovo is exposed to extreme danger to life and limb nor is everyone who returns there threatened with death and severe injury."
Your use of logical thinking and reasoning is somewhat selective Hoplite.
We never bombed Serbia, nor occupied Kosovo.
And I can post articles from 1983 to prove it.
Duh.
"And if you want to talk about Racak, find someone else. I've wasted too much time on too many individuals who cling to the myriad of Serb nationalist 'hoax' hoaxes long after the evidence has made fools of them."
The logical thinker would say "if I don't want to talk about something than I won't bring the subject up". So that makes you bringing the subject of Racak up in this thread rather illogical wouldn't you say? Why did you bring it up if you don't want to discuss it Hoplite? You must have known it would bring further discussion.
Are you really that much of a baboon or are you just pretending to be? Why is it relevent who actually carried out the arrests? What matters is who ordered the arrests, and the fact is those arrests were ordered by internationals (internationals means non-Albanians in case you didn't know). The fact that some Albanian police officers may have been doing the arresting couldn't possibly matter less. They have to do whatever the international authorities in charge of Kosovo tell them to do, even if they don't want to. I thought this was common knowledge but apparently you need to do a lot more research. This is the exact opposite of what is happening in Serbia, where Serbia itself it arresting suspected war criminals, and where there are numerous human rights organizations and activists (Serbian human rights activists, not foreign ones) who are making sure that the arrests take place. How many Albanian human rights activists are there in Kosovo who are saying anything about the countless war crimes committed against Serbs, or even against moderate Albanian "collaborators"? I'll give you a hint, there are zero. The bottom line is that Serbia is now a true democracy where war criminals are held accountable for their actions and where the vast majority of the population has no problem with war criminals being tried, while Kosovo is still a very racist society which has more in common with some third world dictatorship than with Europe, where war criminals are considered heroes and protests take place whenever one is arrested. Don't worry, the Kosovo problem will be solved as soon as the Serbs are given the green light to return. THEN the KLA terrorists will be sorry. Oh yes.
You didn't raise a stink about Racak when Bo Pellnas referred to the 23 men as having been executed in the article you posted, so I didn't really have any reason to suspect you'd subscribe to the idiocy surrounding the subject.
You don't, do you?
Tell me more about logical thinking.
I didn't "raise a stink" as you so eloquently put it in the Bo Pellnäs thread as it was not relevent to the conversation. I have never denied that Albanians were killed in Racak in any of my posts either. What I am refuting is your claim to there having been 350,000 Albanian refugees in Kosovo prior to the war.
Oh, and speaking of maths, there is a difference between 23 killed/executed and 350,000 being "expelled".
You will of course be able to cite something to support you on this, right?
Demanding proof - it's a baboon thing I guess, whereas revenge fantasies are enlightened thought.
Oh yes.
What you are doing is ignoring the existence of the months of February and March of 1999.
Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?
Again from post #50:
1. Opinion of the Upper Administrative Court at Mnster, March 11, 1999 (Az: 13A 3894/94.A): "Ethnic Albanians in Kosovo have neither been nor are now exposed to regional or countrywide group persecution in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia."
5. Report of the Foreign Office March 15, 1999 (Az: 514-516,80/33841) to the Administrative Court, Mainz: "As laid out in the status report of November 18, 1998, the KLA has resumed its positions after the partial withdrawal of the (Serbian) security forces in October 1998, so it once again controls broad areas in the zone of conflict. Before the beginning of spring 1999 there were still clashes between the KLA and security forces, although these have not until now reached the intensity of the battles of spring and summer 1998."
6. Opinion of the Administrative Court of Baden-Wrttemberg, February 4, 1999 (Az: A 14 S 22276/98): "The various reports presented to the senate all agree that the often feared humanitarian catastrophe threatening the Albanian civil population has been averted. ... This appears to be the case since the winding down of combat in connection with an agreement made with the Serbian leadership at the end of 1998 (Status Report of the Foreign Office, November 18, 1998). Since that time both the security situation and the conditions of life of the Albanian-derived population have noticeably improved. ... Specifically in the larger cities public life has since returned to relative normality (cf. on this Foreign Office, January 12, 1999 to the Administrative Court of Trier; December 28, 1998 to the Upper Administrative Court of Lneberg and December 23, 1998 to the Administrative Court at Kassel), even though tensions between the population groups have meanwhile increased due to individual acts of violence... Single instances of excessive acts of violence against the civil population, e.g. in Racak, have, in world opinion, been laid at the feet of the Serbian side and have aroused great indignation. But the number and frequency of such excesses do not warrant the conclusion that every Albanian living in Kosovo is exposed to extreme danger to life and limb nor is everyone who returns there threatened with death and severe injury."
7. Opinion of the Upper Administrative Court at Mnster, February 24, 1999 (Az: 14 A 3840/94,A): "There is no sufficient actual proof of a secret program, or an unspoken consensus on the Serbian side, to liquidate the Albanian people, to drive it out or otherwise to persecute it in the extrememanner presently described. ... If Serbian state power carries out its laws and in so doing necessarily puts pressure on an Albanian ethnic group which turns its back on the state and is for supporting a boycott, then the objective direction of these measures is not that of a programmatic persecution of this population group ...Even if the Serbian state were benevolently to accept or even to intend that a part of the citizenry which sees itself in a hopeless situation or opposescompulsory measures, should emigrate, this still does not represent a program of persecution aimed at the whole of the Albanian majority (in Kosovo)."
Which part can you not comprehend? Both the months of February and March 1999 are cited in this document.
PS: I do hope you don't expect to get a refund for your continual "waste of time" on me, from me ;)
He and RBJoe make up 2 of the 3 stooges. Now, who may we nominate as the 3d Stooge?
Bump
When you're having an ethnic struggle, at least you shouldn't have to choose up sides.
"Jane, it is useless arguing"
Yeah, I kind of realised that but I guess it's a matter of "inaet". Either that or I'm a sucker for punishment :s
Anyway I'm off to Gothenburg for the weekend so no FR until I'm home...I can already feel the "cold-turkey" symptoms coming on. Take care :)
KFOR arrested the former commander of the disbanded Kosovo Liberation Army Sami Lushtaku
The impression one gets from reading articles about Albanian war criminals being arrested is that their arrests are not attributed to Albanian authorities. Any arrests which can be attributed to Albanians occur only because of immense pressure. Also keep in mind that all Albanian war criminals who have been arrested so far have been arrested for crimes against other Albanians, I have yet to read an article about any being arrested for their crimes against Serbian civilians. This shows that the Albanians will never be capable of running a tolerant Kosovo where Serbs are treated as equals, so the only solution is to bring the province back under Serbian control.
Yeah, but do you believe this, given the "true lies", (Sorry Arnold), that will be forthcoming in the slickmeister's tome!
Oh my. I never knew that Madeline Albright was French.
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