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Swedish KFOR General Warns About Total Ethnic Cleansing of Serbs
The Transnational Foundation for Peace and Future Research ^ | May 18, 2004 | Brigadier Anders Brännström

Posted on 05/18/2004 8:49:57 AM PDT by Jane_N

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To: mathurine
When you're having an ethnic struggle, at least you shouldn't have to choose up sides.

If the two sides one is Christian who have never blown up in city in the US, and the other side is fanatical Moslems who are blowing up anything and everything that they can get their filthy hands on to kill Americans, then you have to be an idiot, trator or both not to choose sides.

81 posted on 05/24/2004 5:38:18 AM PDT by philosofy123
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To: Hoplite

I accept your concession.


82 posted on 05/24/2004 12:33:37 PM PDT by C4GoBoom (if its not blown, it sucks)
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To: Jane_N
Which part can you not comprehend?

I don't comprehend how going around in circles is helpful - I've already seen the material you posted the first time around, commented upon it, and am not partial to repeats.

There were 350,000 Kosovar Albanian refugees in Kosovo before we started bombing. The OSCE and other organizations have made available too much information regarding the situation in Kosovo leading up to our bombing campaing for you cling to your German intel reports and court opinions with any hope of convincing anyone save yourself and our resident chorus of Serb nationalist losers (literal). Those 350,000 people fled their homes to escape Serb persecution, and to put forth the premise that there did not exist in Kosovo prior to 1999 widespread, systematic repression of the Kosovo Albanian population is to simply stick one's head up one's behind - regardless of whether one is looking to deny Kosovar Albanian asylum requests or not.

So in summation, Jane, you can continue to ignore the reality, as represented by those 350,000 refugees, for as long as you want, though it may be better for you to come up with an alibi for their being driven from their homes - they were having a picnic, perhaps?

Just don't be surprised when some jackass on the other side of the ethnic divide turns around and throws your rationale back in your face as applied to Kosovo's Serbian refugees.

83 posted on 05/24/2004 6:39:44 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Seselj
The impression one gets

is that you don't have the first clue about supporting your assertions with hard facts - you're supposed to be proving that the local judges didn't issue any warrants, not highlighting those cases where the internationals did.

You've placed yourself in a position where you pretty much have to review all the case histories of the arrests made in response to the March riots in order to prove your case.

And we both know you're incapable of walking that walk to support your talk, aren't we.

84 posted on 05/24/2004 6:45:57 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; Jane_N
How can we know for fact there were 350,000 Albanians within Kosovo when many of them were undocumented, i.e lacking proper papers? Far as we know, they may have entered Kosovo illegaly. Fact has been established many Albanians crossed the border to join ranks with the KLA, thereby making them illegal aliens and invading soveriegn territory, legitimizing Serbian crackdown.

Besides, those Albanians who claimed to have zero papers, always would be able to present some evidence of "Serbian, Yugoslavian" citizenship. Isn't that right, Curly?

85 posted on 05/25/2004 6:23:47 AM PDT by ma bell (Srebrenica! Squawk)
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To: *balkans

Why accept those figures, because NATO said so? Or, we take the Serbian Govt numbers?


86 posted on 05/25/2004 7:17:54 AM PDT by Srebrenica Squak (Squak! Squak! Squak! Squak! Squak! Squak! Squak! Squak!)
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To: ma bell
Besides, those Albanians who claimed to have zero papers, always would be able to present some evidence of "Serbian, Yugoslavian" citizenship. Isn't that right, Curly?

I think Larry is more appropriate, he was the real stupid one. Curly, at least, possessed some humorous charm about him.

87 posted on 05/25/2004 7:26:16 AM PDT by C4GoBoom (if its not blown, it sucks)
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To: Srebrenica Squak

One can not rely on NATO for accuracy, look at their collateral damage record as an indicator. The Hague court tried to use "statistics" experts to bolster their bogus claim of 10,000 dead/missing Albanians from the conflict, and these claims were based on "missing" paperwork.


88 posted on 05/25/2004 7:31:12 AM PDT by C4GoBoom (if its not blown, it sucks)
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To: ma bell; All

Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to know how many people "emmigrated" from Albania during the 90's? I think it would be interesting to see some statistics from this period of unrest and civil disorder in Albania and see how many of them actually "moved" to Former Yugoslavia.


89 posted on 05/25/2004 7:39:52 AM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder!)
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To: Jane_N

legally or illegally?


90 posted on 05/25/2004 7:57:48 AM PDT by C4GoBoom (if its not blown, it sucks)
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To: Hoplite; Jane_N
The only “uninformed or willfully deceptive commentator” is you, big fella, and I’m calling BS on ya. Brigadier Bo said “it cannot be stated that any ethnic cleansing or genocide was taking place in Kosovo before the war started.” That statement comports completely with the piece you cited, in which the 400,000 refugees (the number sounds high but I’ll assume arguendo that it’s correct) are described as the result of fighting throughout the province:

The fighting caused additional displacement both within Kosovo and across its borders”;

“So far, the fighting in Kosovo has displaced about 400,000, according to UNHCR.”

No mention of “genocide” as a cause, and the only “ethnic cleansing” noted in the piece was by Albanians against Serbs: “The souring of negotiations also brought with it Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) attacks aimed at trying to ‘cleanse’ Kosovo of its ethnic Serb civilian population.” Looks like we bombed the side that was undergoing the ethnic cleansing, not the perps thereof – but we both know the ethnic cleansing canard had nothing to do with the bombing, right Hopster?

In short, your entire premise is that the existence of refugees reflects “ethnic cleansing or genocide”. The report you cite tells the exact opposite story than what you claim and corroborates rather than refutes Bo’s statement. Given that, you might want to work on your reading comprehension skills before pulling your fake righteous schtick on Jane.

91 posted on 05/25/2004 8:58:14 AM PDT by Gael (Bo knows what Hop no’s)
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To: C4GoBoom; ma bell
Let me suggest a third alternative.
92 posted on 05/25/2004 9:01:47 AM PDT by Gael (Or maybe Joe DeRita)
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To: Jane_N
Jane, the name “Bo” seems fairly common in Sweden, e.g. Bo Widerberg. Is it a nickname; short for something (Bodacious? Botulism?); or just a name in and of itself (and if so who would name their kid “Bo”?)
93 posted on 05/25/2004 9:03:35 AM PDT by Gael (No, not the lutefisk!)
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To: Gael; ma bell

"350,000 Albanians are worth more than 250,000 Serbs Mo"

94 posted on 05/25/2004 9:05:02 AM PDT by C4GoBoom (if its not blown, it sucks)
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To: drypowder
"NATO, under Bill Clinton's lead, supposedly stopped the ETHNIC cleansing by bombing the hell out of the Serbs. "

- Hmmm. Now it's the Muslims butchering the Serb Christian minority. But, but, B.J. and the MSM told us that the real danger of ethnic cleansing was the other way around (remember the estimate of 500,000 slaughtered civilians thrown around by Billy when he was drumming up domestic support for his non-UN authorized intervention?) Since Billy and his near genius intellect got the region into this mess, I think it wise to send him as a special U.N. emissary to sort this current mess out. I just hope he doesn't solve it like the last time; by dropping peace proposals while circling overhead at 40,000 feet.
95 posted on 05/25/2004 9:20:58 AM PDT by finnigan2
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To: C4GoBoom

"legally or illegally?"

Would both be too much to ask for? ;)


96 posted on 05/25/2004 9:38:10 AM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder!)
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To: Gael

The name Bo is rather common, but mainly among those born during the 40's and 50's. In other words it's not so popular today for kids to be named Bo. I asked my husband if it was a shortened version of something else and apparently it isn't, nor is it a nickname. By the way the swedish verb "to live" is "bo" so maybe the Bo as a name also means "to live".


97 posted on 05/25/2004 12:09:33 PM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder!)
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To: Hoplite
The fact that I didn't find any cases in my search of Albanians being responsible for any arrests suggests that they are not.

You can't ask someone to prove a negative, Hoplite. Proving that something isn't true is usually not possible. If you think something is true, you try to prove that it is, and if you cannot, then it's probably not. So the onus of proof falls on you. Get cracking, show me evidence that Albanians have made any effort to chastise KLA members who committed crimes against Serbs, the way Serbs did to punish Serbian soldiers suspected of crimes against Albanians.

This is one of those "put up or shut up" moments you've gotten yourself into here, Hoppie. Kindly choose a course of action.

98 posted on 05/25/2004 3:25:52 PM PDT by Seselj
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To: Hoplite
There were 350,000 Kosovar Albanian refugees in Kosovo before we started bombing.

Even if that's true, it doesn't prove ethnic cleansing. There was fighting going on between the army and the rebels. Removing civilians from the danger zone (forcefully if they resist) is what any country would have done in Serbia's situation. It's for their own safety. Of course these Albanians probably went and told every reporter that they were "forced from their homes".

99 posted on 05/25/2004 3:32:52 PM PDT by Seselj
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To: Gael
At one Kosovo border town, Ivaja, Serb forces burned most of the houses. Reuters news agency found the only remaining civilian in the town, Ramadan Muljoki, an 84-year-old man. Still in shock and caked with blood, Muljoki told the Reuters reporter, "They beat me with rifles and asked me if I knew anyone from the KLA. They asked me if my son was in the KLA and I said no and they beat me again."

About nine miles from the Macedonian border, Serb forces rounded up about 400 of the displaced people who had fled their homes in Ivaja. They separated the military-age men from the women, children, and elderly men, and loaded them onto trucks and took them to a nearby school in Kacanik. The police took about 100 of the younger men in armored cars to a police station, telling international monitors on the scene that they would "root out terrorists."

Hmm... Help me out here, Gael - my reading comprehension skills aren't apparently all I thought they were.

Either that, or you're still suffering from that particularly Serb version of HUA syndrome I've been treated to ever since wandering into these Balkan threads on FR.

What happened in Ivaja was ethnic cleansing. If you want to call it fighting, then you're just conforming to the idiocy endemic on these threads, aren't you.

By early March the VJ and police were carrying out acts of deliberate destruction and looting sometimes in plain sight of the OSCE-KVM, and the mission was recording such destruction, looting and pillage in many locations in Kosovo. source

Don't worry Gael - it wasn't ethnic cleansing, it's all some misunderstanding or conspiracy by Serbia's enemies to make her look bad.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

100 posted on 05/25/2004 3:38:10 PM PDT by Hoplite
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