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POPE LIVE ON FOX WITH BUSH
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121750,00.html ^ | 4JUNE2004 | ME

Posted on 06/04/2004 3:49:33 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar

ROME — President Bush and Pope John Paul II (search ) met briefly for talks in Vatican City Friday at the start of the president's 36-hour tour of Italy.

The president nodded and smiled as he greeted the 84-year-old pontiff, leaning down to hold his trembling hands. The closed-door talks between the president and the Pope, who has expressed fervent opposition to the war in Iraq, were to focus on Iraq and the conflict in the

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bush; onemansopinion; pope; thepopeiswrong; vaticanvisit
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To: alaska-sgt

ceremonious photo op.


51 posted on 06/04/2004 4:02:58 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: alaska-sgt

Laura just received something from the Pope. It was in a small white box.


52 posted on 06/04/2004 4:03:52 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: alaska-sgt

He ( the Pope is handing out boxes and shaking hands)


53 posted on 06/04/2004 4:04:26 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: Catspaw

Pope called for Iraq to have sovereignty back as soon as possible.

54 posted on 06/04/2004 4:04:32 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: kcvl

Thanks! I was typing.


55 posted on 06/04/2004 4:05:02 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: alaska-sgt

He still hands out boxes, many boxes.


56 posted on 06/04/2004 4:06:18 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: alaska-sgt

I'm not watching, but I'll assume from everyone's comments that the Pope was having a weak moment, as he does so often because of his health.

But IMHO, if he mumbled or not, the political impact of this meeting is what matters.

You've got Bush, who is not a Catholic, meeting with the Pope, bestowing an honor on him.

On the other hand, you've got Kerry, who is a Catholic, openly defying the edicts of the church in supporting abortion and gay marriage.

If I were a Catholic, the symbolism of the whole scenario would be quite telling.


57 posted on 06/04/2004 4:06:32 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: alaska-sgt
Touching ceremony.

Strenuous to watch due to the Pope's physical condition.


[I can hear the lib/dems spin today, 'See, GWB is moving even closer to be more like John Kerry by trying to convert to Catholicism.']
58 posted on 06/04/2004 4:07:07 AM PDT by TomGuy (Clintonites have such good hind-sight because they had their heads up their hind-ends 8 years.)
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To: alaska-sgt

Presenting rosaries or medal blessed by the Holy Father.


59 posted on 06/04/2004 4:07:16 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: dawn53

presenting rosary beads or medals for those in attendance.


60 posted on 06/04/2004 4:07:43 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: dawn53

I agree.


61 posted on 06/04/2004 4:07:57 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: alaska-sgt

FoxNews commentary: Small white boxes are rosary beads, typically given as gifts.


62 posted on 06/04/2004 4:08:46 AM PDT by TomGuy (Clintonites have such good hind-sight because they had their heads up their hind-ends 8 years.)
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To: TomGuy

Beautiful building.


63 posted on 06/04/2004 4:09:31 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: alaska-sgt

Bush is heading out.


64 posted on 06/04/2004 4:10:14 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: TomGuy

The Bushes and their delegation are now leaving.


65 posted on 06/04/2004 4:10:14 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: alaska-sgt

66 posted on 06/04/2004 4:11:28 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: kcvl

Thank you for the picture. I'm off to bed.


67 posted on 06/04/2004 4:12:12 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: alaska-sgt

I'm not Catholic, so I may not understand everything, so please forgive any blunders I might make.

Is this something that will be significant to Catholics, to see the President with the Pope?

Would Kerry be allowed to have an audience with the Pope given his stance on abortion?


68 posted on 06/04/2004 4:14:17 AM PDT by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: alaska-sgt; All

Good luck finding anything positive written about this. I just tried and this is the best that I can find.



Posted on Fri, Jun. 04, 2004





Bush meets with anti-war Pope John Paul II

SCOTT LINDLAW

Associated Press


ROME - President Bush met on Friday with Pope John Paul II, who has expressed fervent opposition to the war in Iraq, as he began a 36-hour tour of Italy and Vatican City.

The president nodded and smiled as he greeted the 84-year-old pontiff, leaning down to hold his trembling hands. Later, Bush was to meet with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, a staunch supporter and U.S. ally in the war.

The official agenda of Bush's brief European trip is to honor the sacrifices and triumphs of World War II in Italy and France 60 years ago. But the Iraq war looms large in Italy, where most people think the United States should pull troops out, and Bush was making his case anew.

Thousands of police patrolled the streets of Rome on Friday as small groups of demonstrators marched around the capital, protesting Bush's visit. A large anti-war demonstration was expected to attract thousands later, but a few hundred protesters began early morning marches. A few tossed firecrackers at an Air Force building; others waved rainbow flags that said "No to War" and "Not in my name, Mr. Bush."

About 10,000 police have been deployed for the duration of the president's visit, but Bush saw no protesters as his motorcade rolled toward the Quirinale Palace where he began his day with a visit with Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, who holds the largely ceremonial title of Italian president. Later, Bush builded bridges with the pope, bearing a message that the United States was determined not to allow a repeat of the prisoner-abuse scandal in Iraq.

He spends the evening bolstering his friendship with Berlusconi, who has deployed about 3,000 troops to help rebuild Iraq. Bush was accompanied to Rome by Secretary of State Colin Powell, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and other top administration officials.

On Thursday, just hours before Bush arrived in Italy, several mortar shells were fired at the Italian Embassy in Baghdad, killing at least one Iraqi, the foreign minister in Rome said.

Friday marked Bush's third meeting with the pope since he became president - a measure of the importance both men place on the relationship. The president has aggressively chased Roman Catholic voters since he split the Catholic vote with Al Gore in 2000, and images of the pope greeting him could promote his standing among a group that represents about a quarter of the electorate.

More broadly, it reminds Bush's Christian base that he shares core values with the pope, such as an opposition to abortion.

But the meeting with John Paul II also serves as a reminder of the pope's firm opposition to the war in Iraq.

Many Italians agree with the pontiff. Last year a million people marched in the streets of Rome to protest plans for the war. A recent poll for the newsweekly L'Espresso found that 54 percent of Italians thought U.S. troops should pull out of Iraq, while 39 percent thought they should stay.

Vatican officials recently have issued sharp criticism of Bush administration's actions leading up to the war and the abuse inflicted by U.S. soldiers on Iraqi prisoners.

Last week the pope condemned torture as an intolerable affront to human dignity, lamenting that reports of abuses "constantly arrive from all continents." He made no mention of any countries or specific cases in his speech.

The U.S. ambassador to the Vatican, former Republican National Committee Chairman Jim Nicholson, recently sought clarification from the Vatican's foreign minister, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo, who told an Italian newspaper the prisoner abuse scandal dealt a bigger blow to the United States than the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Both sides said they wanted to move beyond their dispute over Iraq in the meeting Friday.

The president was eager to talk to the pontiff about religious freedom in China and elsewhere, combatting AIDS, and international assistance issues, a senior administration official said Thursday. And Bush wanted to assure the pope that the United States was vigorously investigating the prisoner abuses at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

Also Friday, Bush and his wife were laying a wreath at Fosse Adeatine, the site of a World War II atrocity in which Nazis occupying Italy killed 335 men and boys, 75 of them Jews.

Bush was spending a second night in Rome on Friday before meeting Saturday for the second time with Berlusconi, then leaving for France. There, Bush will work to rebuild ties with French President Jacques Chirac, who led the opposition to the war in Iraq.

On Sunday the president will head to Normandy on the French coast to help commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Allies' D-Day landing.


69 posted on 06/04/2004 4:15:32 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: texasflower

Pope Appeals for Return of Iraq's Sovereignty

Reuters
Friday, June 4, 2004; 7:01 AM


VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul called for the speedy return of Iraq's sovereignty during a meeting at the Vatican on Friday with President Bush.


"It is the evident desire of everyone that this situation now be normalized as quickly as possible with the active participation of the international community and, in particular, the United Nations organization, in order to ensure a speedy return of Iraq's sovereignty, in conditions of security for all its people," the 84-year-old pontiff said.

The pope strongly opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


70 posted on 06/04/2004 4:17:47 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: kcvl

Not in my neck of the woods. Only the eldery ones are not too willful to do it.


71 posted on 06/04/2004 4:20:32 AM PDT by Jonx6
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To: gov_bean_ counter
He can resign. Few have done so but then few have reigned as long as this one. It is obvious that the Papal offices have been hijacked by leftist, francophone pro EU bureaucrats.
72 posted on 06/04/2004 4:20:32 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: kcvl
You make a great point. One of my favorite things is what is called "Grandma Bush's Rules".

Never Brag
Never Quit
Never let 'em know you're hurting
Be Honest
Be kind
Care about the other guy - help him
Don't look down on anyone
Compete hard
Play to win
Give the credit to the other guy

I'd say Our President has taken those lessons to heart!

73 posted on 06/04/2004 4:21:59 AM PDT by SouthernHawk
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To: texasflower

Saddam's envoy met with the Pope so it appears the Pope does not discriminate between good and evil.


74 posted on 06/04/2004 4:25:17 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: alaska-sgt

Not to make light of it, but the Pope does sound a bit like Brando's Godfather. And he was one tough old bastard!!! Go Pope!


75 posted on 06/04/2004 4:25:51 AM PDT by clarissaexplainsitall
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To: Sacajaweau

OK...


76 posted on 06/04/2004 4:26:30 AM PDT by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: kcvl

Blasted AP! They've even got to get the words 'anti-war' in the headline.

I can't wait until the old media completely rots into a stinking dung pile.

After reading their article, I feel like something is stuck on the bottom of my shoe.


77 posted on 06/04/2004 4:26:49 AM PDT by mplsconservative (May thousands of angels surround and protect our troops and allies as they take on the great EVIL.)
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To: CasearianDaoist
He can resign

Not willingly. Here's a list of Popes who were driven from office:

Over a 2,000 year history that's an EXTREMELY short list.

78 posted on 06/04/2004 4:27:23 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: dawn53
The Church is split down the middle in the US. The Leftist element in the church is just as irrational as it is in any other segment of the population; then there are the old "New Deal" Democrats that still think we are recovering from the Depression and and that the GOP is the party of political elites and has in it ranks a great many civil and labor union members. This later group is concentrated in urban areas.

Curiously, the more conservative elements if the Church are from the third world. These folk have not yet reached a powerful political critical mass (no pun intended) but they may yet do so.

So I think that politically it is a wash in this country. Bush though is unapologetically bring the good fight right into the heart of the European establishment so to some degree he has thwarted some of the French and German propaganda efforts here and shamed the hawkers of the anti religious bigotry that fill the Left.

What it does show is the great courage -even physical courage - of GWB. He faces his critics which open hands. It is just amazing.

79 posted on 06/04/2004 4:32:55 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: mplsconservative

According to the European (Spanish) radio station I listen to, anti-war protesters are already out blocking the streets and burning tires in Rome.


80 posted on 06/04/2004 4:35:11 AM PDT by livius
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To: CasearianDaoist
He faces his critics which open hands. It is just amazing.

I have been genuinely impressed by this, too.

81 posted on 06/04/2004 4:36:14 AM PDT by livius
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To: MrsEmmaPeel

NO, he can step down. I do not know what you mean by "willingly." He can retire if he choses to. There is even a resignation in the list that you post here.


82 posted on 06/04/2004 4:37:55 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: YaYa123

I missed it and I think I'm glad. I just heard a replay of some of the Pope's remarks and it is very painful.


83 posted on 06/04/2004 4:38:26 AM PDT by Bahbah
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To: CasearianDaoist

Good analysis, right on the money. The PTOUS' visit will not change minds, the fault lines in the Catholic Church are drawn smack dab over abortion and homosexuality.


84 posted on 06/04/2004 4:38:54 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: livius

I think it is the honest Christian in him (and a good upbring.) That is not to say that he does not have sound character - do not get me wrong about that.


85 posted on 06/04/2004 4:39:45 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: texasflower

It is significant for American Catholics who are devout (and most likely vote Republican) to see the Methodist President visit the Pope. Despite the animosity of some Protestants he does represent over a billion members of the Church on earth. It seems to the Muslims (who have long memories and remember non-wimpy Christians) that he represents the leader of Christianity more than any other figure.
As for Kerry, well, I am sure he could have an audience with the Pope. I am certain the Pope would be very frank with him regarding the precarious position of his soul should he continue to defend the death cult. All the Church can do is appeal to his conscience and apply excommunication when it is deemed necessary.
I appreciate that American Fundamentalist Protestants have picked up the ball dropped by (most, not all) wimpy Catholic bishops regarding the abortion horror.


86 posted on 06/04/2004 4:43:53 AM PDT by stanley windrush
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To: gov_bean_ counter
Is the Pope allowed to retire? Seriously.

I think so. Eventually, he may have to.

However, his perseverence in the face of suffering is an example for all Christians. There's also a lesson here for our modern society that seeks to prematurely institutionalize the infirm, or put them to death.

87 posted on 06/04/2004 4:45:44 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Ragirl

Here's the text of the Pope's speech:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1147368/posts


88 posted on 06/04/2004 4:46:56 AM PDT by monkapotamus
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To: Sacajaweau

How do you though he helped destroy communism, for sure not from Vatican and communist didn’t arrived to Vatican. However his influences are more useable in Catholic countries.


89 posted on 06/04/2004 4:47:41 AM PDT by Lukasz (Hey don't look for my horrible mistakes, I'm learning English here!)
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To: CasearianDaoist
NO, he can step down

I think you misunderstand. It's NOT the custom for a Pope to resign willingly. Those that have left office and have not died in it (a VERY small list), were kicked out due to a political coup.

90 posted on 06/04/2004 4:48:18 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: texasflower
Would Kerry be allowed to have an audience with the Pope given his stance on abortion?

Anyone can have an audience with the pope, even the man who tried to assasinate him. Kerry would never do it because the pope would very likely mention the obligation of politicians to protect unborn children in a public statement. I doubt the pope would allow himself to be used as a photo op, as Cardinals McCarrick and Mahoney have done.

91 posted on 06/04/2004 4:50:04 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: razorbak
Gives whole new meaning to the word DODDERING.

Courageous.
92 posted on 06/04/2004 4:52:55 AM PDT by Desdemona (Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
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Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

To: stanley windrush; Aquinasfan

Thank you both for the information. I appreciate it.


94 posted on 06/04/2004 4:58:02 AM PDT by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: Jonx6; kcvl
Not in my neck of the woods. Only the eldery ones are not too willful to do it.

Not in my neck of the woods either ..

95 posted on 06/04/2004 5:00:14 AM PDT by Mo1 (Make Michael Moore cry.... DONATE MONTHLY!!!)
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To: CasearianDaoist
Curiously, the more conservative elements if the Church are from the third world. These folk have not yet reached a powerful political critical mass (no pun intended) but they may yet do so.

There are those who are not from the third world at all and recognize that all the worldliness of the modern church has brought us nothing but trouble. After 2000 years, you'd think the church had some wisdom, but the modernists doubt it.
96 posted on 06/04/2004 5:00:57 AM PDT by Desdemona (Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
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To: stanley windrush

Nicely put. There is amazing anti Catholic rhetoric and blatant hostility among Protestants voting Democrat.

I remember reading in the papers after Bush's first meeting with the Pope how the Pope had been appreciative that W was attentive and respectful. The Pope then added that 42 (also known as the most useless man in America) was inattentive and politely inferred that he was a disrespectful know-it-all.


97 posted on 06/04/2004 5:02:35 AM PDT by saveliberty (Liberal= in need of therapy, but would rather ruin lives of those less fortunate to feel good)
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To: texasflower

Many of the "old school" catholics see this as important. You can probably put the catholic spectrum of Hispanics (particularly the recently immigrated) in that category as well. Note: this is, of course, a rather braod generalization.


98 posted on 06/04/2004 5:18:03 AM PDT by Coachm
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To: kcvl
Pope called for Iraq to have sovereignty back as soon as possible.

Since he was against the war does that mean he also wants Saddam back
99 posted on 06/04/2004 5:22:35 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: monkapotamus
Here's the text of the Pope's speech:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1147368/posts

Thank you!

100 posted on 06/04/2004 5:22:41 AM PDT by Ragirl (Vote in '04 ! Those who sit on their hands end up with poop on them.)
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