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Office Messes (Attention Deficit Disorder & ADHD, long read)
NY Times ^ | July 18, 2004 | LISA BELKIN

Posted on 07/17/2004 11:43:25 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: mikegi
"I don't know how many times I hear moms say "Stop doing that, stop doing that ... 1 ... 2 ... 3", then nothing happens. The kids realize that there are no consequences to bad behavior."

Believe me, we know this. We are very disciplined with our parenting approach. Our kids are fine on the discipline front, we are consistent and firm. And I agree that ADD is overdiagnosed. Without a doubt it is something that helps drug companies push unnecessary medicine and lazy parents a way to control challenging children. But to those who really do have it, and the people around them, there is positively no guessing involved. Maybe in the past they had other names for it, but ADD is very real to those who really have to deal with it.

61 posted on 07/18/2004 1:05:21 PM PDT by paulsy
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To: thoughtomator
You'd be surprised how far actually caring about one's work goes in getting one to work on time, getting the work done properly, etc.

If they are lollygagging around all the time and are just late, yes. If they are constantly getting distracted into things, then perhaps not. I know a person that prior to setting up computer alarms would almost never make meetings because they were distracted by doing their projects and would get completely wrapped up in them. They had more output than any two other people for several months at a time, but would always be late, and their work would peak and valley every few months.

Of course an annual review would show that they were constantly late for work, and would go through spats of missing deadlines. It wouldn't note that they were also often late going home, and had learned how to do every job function in a diverse department.

Kinda bipolar ADHD.

62 posted on 07/18/2004 1:06:46 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: thoughtomator
You'd be surprised how far actually caring about one's work goes in getting one to work on time, getting the work done properly, etc.

If they are lollygagging around all the time and are just late, yes. If they are constantly getting distracted into things, then perhaps not. I know a person that prior to setting up computer alarms would almost never make meetings because they were distracted by doing their projects and would get completely wrapped up in them. They had more output than any two other people for several months at a time, but would always be late, and their work would peak and valley every few months.

Of course an annual review would show that they were constantly late for work, and would go through spats of missing deadlines. It wouldn't note that they were also often late going home, and had learned how to do every job function in a diverse department.

Kinda bipolar ADHD.

63 posted on 07/18/2004 1:06:46 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: paulsy

I respectfully suggest that it is you who needs to further educate yourself on this matter. ADD is an excuse for massively widespread child abuse, nothing more. Disorders that affect millions do not just appear out of thin air.

There are real disorders that affect children and are diagnosed as ADD, but I would estimate that those are less than 5% of all such cases.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/add
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/keyword/adhd


64 posted on 07/18/2004 1:07:31 PM PDT by thoughtomator (End the imperialist moo slime colonization of the West!)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
"Most of the problems appear to actually be EMD."

I'm waiting for someone who has actually been diagnosed with it, or who actually has it, to come forward with these kinds of statements. ???

65 posted on 07/18/2004 1:07:40 PM PDT by paulsy
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To: lepton

Those aren't ADD symptoms... that's a bipolar disorder, something completely different. But it does go to show that ADD has become a catch-all for a lot of different things that aren't ADD.


66 posted on 07/18/2004 1:09:04 PM PDT by thoughtomator (End the imperialist moo slime colonization of the West!)
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To: thoughtomator
"ADD is an excuse for massively widespread child abuse, nothing more."

Well in my case I'm an adult who is not really being abused by anyone. But I agree with your sentiment, though "nothing more" precludes ADD as a viable option in even one case.

There are real disorders that affect children and are diagnosed as ADD, but I would estimate that those are less than 5% of all such cases.

I actually agree with this statement. But is there a psychologist in our community who can step forward and say what they think? I get tired of "experts" who haven't been there acting like they know it all.

67 posted on 07/18/2004 1:12:07 PM PDT by paulsy
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To: neverdem

I need a psychotropic drug to read articles that long ...


68 posted on 07/18/2004 1:13:48 PM PDT by spodefly (I can't handle the pressure to come up with interesting taglines for every post.)
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To: mikegi
Yes, most of the boys misbehave but it is due to two things:

Perhaps not what you are talking about, but certain types of misbehaving are simply "tactile learning" in an environment set up for girls (who sometimes have the same tendency, but at a much lower rate).

69 posted on 07/18/2004 1:13:53 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: thoughtomator
I guess, I'm trying to understand your position on this.

Are you saying that ADD doesn't exist? If so, we disagree. Or are you saying that it is over-diagnosed and a trojan horse for laziness and abuse? If so, we agree.

70 posted on 07/18/2004 1:16:05 PM PDT by paulsy
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To: paulsy

The problem with getting a professional psychologist's opinion is that psychologists have a vested interest in saying that it does exist. ADD = money for them.

I have no such interest. All I have to say for myself is that I did have problems as a child, that if I were born a decade or two later I would have certainly been diagnosed as ADD/ADHD and drugged out with Ritalin; that those problems were the direct result of the absence of parental guidance, too much TV, and schools which did not have the tools to provide for an intelligent child; and that later in life, when I was able to sort out these problems without outside interference, the elimination of television, self-education, and religious study were more than sufficient to cure all the legacy problems that I did have.

Thus, I believe it is nothing more than child abuse to give psychoactive drugs to children in place of taking these other, commonsense steps. In the extremely rare case where that is not sufficient, I would say a real disorder exists. The fact that, after all this time, there is still no hard-and-fast definition of ADD that can be put to an objective test, despite enormous resources from the psychology and pharmaceutical industries, is as close to proof of the non-existence of ADD/ADHD as one can get.

On a very basic level, if a child is raised by a television in a family where both parents work, and taught by government schools, one would expect an otherwise healthy child to develop all the symptoms associated with ADD/ADHD.


71 posted on 07/18/2004 1:25:58 PM PDT by thoughtomator (End the imperialist moo slime colonization of the West!)
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To: paulsy

I'm not talking about legitimate cases(and I strongly disagree with the blowhards who claim ADD is ENTIRELY made up.) But there are a heck of a lot of persons who claim to have ADD who really are just excuse making, in jobs poorly suited to their personalities, lacking self-control, etc.

You have my prayers and understanding for your situation. The excuse makers who try and jump on the ADD bandwagon end up doing the most harm to recognition of ADD by the general public, because they are the loudest ones and those most likely to be encountered by the public, who then attaches a gereral skepticism about the existence and severity of actual cases.


72 posted on 07/18/2004 1:26:10 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: paulsy

Continue to Not Medicate them.

Contrary to what popular opinion is, ritalin, and it's brood....will leave your child with a sweet tooth for narcotics later in life. God help them if they ever fall into methamphetamines. Ahhh, that calm surreal childhood feeling.

Personal experience, and opinion...but you're doing the right thing.


73 posted on 07/18/2004 1:27:36 PM PDT by 1_Inch_Group (Gun Owners. The front line of homeland defence)
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To: thoughtomator
It's certainly not bipolar deppression. I don't recall ever seeing this person depressed. The variation was clearly a measure of focus. Driving for this person was an adventure, as after a few months they'd begin to get lost on the way to work, apparently daydreaming.

In this persons case, the lateness to meetings was resolved with meeting software (they would always remember that there was supposed to be a meeting and when, but not in a timely manner). The variation in performance was resolved by constantly changing their tasks. Any task you gave this person would be mastered within months, and would begin to decline soon thereafter, until they'd get lost staring blankly at the screen.

Management decision: Set them to learn new (widely varied) tasks, train others to do them and take them over, and go onto new tasks. Worked fine.

Now...why would this only show up relatively recently? Well, for starters, we were designed to go chase bunnies, not to sit at a desk for years, performing repetitive functions, operating on a schedule. Lots of ADD traits would not be notable, or would be actually helpful in other environments.

74 posted on 07/18/2004 1:30:46 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: MHGinTN
Sort of opiatic. Writing to dull the senses and lower the eyelids.

A good NY Times writer is like the ol' ugly Wicked Witch of Oz: "Lotus flowers ... yes, my lovelies ... that will make them sleeep ..."

A good read? Wake up a sheep. Are you baahhing yet?

75 posted on 07/18/2004 1:36:22 PM PDT by bvw
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To: Diddle E. Squat
ADD is ENTIRELY MADE UP!

BLOWHARDIAN OR NOT ... THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.

* * * * *

The world depends on blowhards and flakes. The rest of you are just sheep, penned for the slaughter.

76 posted on 07/18/2004 1:39:57 PM PDT by bvw
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To: thoughtomator
A Catch-all.

Right. It's a fad. Like the general "neuralgias" and "distempers" of bygone eras for which magical elixers were sold.

But it's more than that too. It's in the same line as Margeret Sanger and the racial and social purifiers. The offical eugenists who sterilized the "addled" and the negroid. It shows that official society has tolerance only for a an extremely curtailed set of behavioual patterns. A very boring and dull set, by the way. Not a very productive set, what "they" would allow.

An unhealthy attitude "they" have.

And they are just the people who buy into this claptrap, or the ones who go along with it. "They" are us.

But not me.

77 posted on 07/18/2004 1:49:59 PM PDT by bvw
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To: spodefly

"I need a psychotropic drug to read articles that long ..."

Funny you should say that. Despite my ADD tendencies, I never had any trouble sitting and reading, sometimes for long stretches. I do have a nasty habit of sometimes missing whole paragraphs or sentences while reading. That cost me quite a few times on tests and exams in school.


78 posted on 07/18/2004 1:58:13 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: thoughtomator

Another type of depression is bipolar disorder, also called manic-depressive illness. Not nearly as prevalent as other forms of depressive disorders, bipolar disorder is characterized by cycling mood changes: severe highs (mania) and lows (depression). Sometimes the mood switches are dramatic and rapid, but most often they are gradual. When in the depressed cycle, an individual can have any or all of the symptoms of a depressive disorder. When in the manic cycle, the individual may be overactive, overtalkative, and have a great deal of energy. Mania often affects thinking, judgment, and social behavior in ways that cause serious problems and embarrassment. For example, the individual in a manic phase may feel elated, full of grand schemes that might range from unwise business decisions to romantic sprees. Mania, left untreated, may worsen to a psychotic state.

SYMPTOMS OF DEPRESSION AND MANIA
Not everyone who is depressed or manic experiences every symptom. Some people experience a few symptoms, some many. Severity of symptoms varies with individuals and also varies over time.

Depression
Persistent sad, anxious, or "empty" mood
Feelings of hopelessness, pessimism
Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, helplessness
Loss of interest or pleasure in hobbies and activities that were once enjoyed, including sex
Decreased energy, fatigue, being "slowed down"
Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions
Insomnia, early-morning awakening, or oversleeping
Appetite and/or weight loss or overeating and weight gain
Thoughts of death or suicide; suicide attempts
Restlessness, irritability
Persistent physical symptoms that do not respond to treatment, such as headaches, digestive disorders, and chronic pain

Mania
Abnormal or excessive elation
Unusual irritability
Decreased need for sleep
Grandiose notions
Increased talking
Racing thoughts
Increased sexual desire
Markedly increased energy
Poor judgment
Inappropriate social behavior

What lepton described is not bipolar disorder, but it sure sounds that "spacey" behavior described in the article. The above definition of bipolar disorder and symptoms was from the National Institute of Mental Health(NIMH). Here's the URL:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/depression.cfm#ptdep3


79 posted on 07/18/2004 2:23:02 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
but it sure sounds like that "spacey" behavior described in the article.
80 posted on 07/18/2004 2:33:48 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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