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'Exporting America: Why Corporate Greed Is Shipping American Jobs Overseas' by CNN's Lou Dobbs
tallahassee.com ^ | Sun, Aug. 22, 2004 | Cecil Johnson

Posted on 09/08/2004 3:36:00 PM PDT by Destro

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To: luckystarmom
I really get concerned about the defense industry. Only US citizens can get clearances, so the engineers have to be from the US.

I get concerned about that too. If we are a nation of serfs making our livings giving massages and toenail manicures to the tiny minority of elites, and we depend on foreign countries for our scientific and technical work, why shouldn't the US become ripe for an invasion within a generation?

141 posted on 09/08/2004 7:42:36 PM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: RFT1
"And no one "owes" you their vote, voting in politicians who promise to keep taxes low. An unemployed or underemployed American wont care about taxes when they vote, so you have two choices down the road, employ more Americans(and not import cheap labor), or pay more taxes to take care of displaced American workers."

HUH? I'm not running for anything. I certainly hope you aren't.

142 posted on 09/08/2004 7:44:00 PM PDT by groanup (Our kids sleep soundly because soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines stand ready to die for us.)
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To: Spackidagoosh
He better watch out. His parent company AOL\TW ships many jobs over to India.

But that's a good thing, right?

143 posted on 09/08/2004 7:44:50 PM PDT by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: 1rudeboy
Why are they going home if they can only work for $7.00/hour?

One reason: last time I looked, China was a *totalitarian, communist dictatorship.* Chinese grad students have family at home (parents, aunts, uncles, sometimes wives and one or two children.) If they *don't* go home, guess who winds up in the lagoi.

Many Indians do stay here, if they can get the visa/residency worked out.

144 posted on 09/08/2004 7:45:18 PM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: snooker; ninenot

"Things change, but the US hasn't lost anything yet. It is only if we allow our country to drift into the socialist/communist mindset do we end up like old Europe."


What do you think has been happening to the US since the Great Society? It slowed down a little after Reagan was elected and a little more after the 94 lections, but now more and more citizens have less and less to loose, and have less and less hope for the future. Now hopfully they will see Kerry isint any better on trade/immigration issues than Bush is, but still, do you think a majority of American voters will continue to accept a falling standard of living?

If the Corps continue to gut the middle class, say hello to a social democracy, and goodbye to a free republic.


145 posted on 09/08/2004 7:45:19 PM PDT by RFT1
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To: groanup

well unless you are running off money at the copy machine, or are able to go to your employer and ask for an instant raise to cover your increased gasoline costs - it is certainly reducing your disposable income level. for many americans, they maintain that level by going deeper into credit card debt.

sustained $2+ gasoline will change american's buying habits for SUVs/light trucks/minivans. and since that is the only profitable area for US carmakers, watch what happens to sales and profits at GM and Ford going into 2005 if gasoline stays at $2+.


146 posted on 09/08/2004 7:46:55 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: groanup

Not the best wording I will admit. What I meant to say is no one owes the tax cutting, economically conservative politician their vote. This matter on outsourcing will come to a head sooner or later.


147 posted on 09/08/2004 7:46:57 PM PDT by RFT1
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To: valkyrieanne
"India is a major exporter of agricultural products. We can't easily export goods to India because the Indians are heavily protectionist and put big tariffs on outside products (especially from the US.)"

I was obviously using agriculture as an example for the sake of argument. So you got me. Make it snowmobiles.

148 posted on 09/08/2004 7:47:27 PM PDT by groanup (Our kids sleep soundly because soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines stand ready to die for us.)
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To: 1rudeboy

who pays for their US college educations? are they returning home with $100K in debt, or are they getting assistance from their own governments, companies who sponsor them, even our government through grants to higher education, etc, etc.

in any case, its temporary. India already is cranking out natively educated IT graduates at a healthly clip.


149 posted on 09/08/2004 7:50:05 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview

But think of all those high-paying jobs in the oil services industry the U.S. will create if it enforces a mandatory minimum price of $3.00 per gallon. Isn't that the concept behind a tariff?


150 posted on 09/08/2004 7:50:14 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: RFT1
I guess I just don't see it your way. Jobs change, people need to adapt. I have adapted all my life. Anyone can.

The days where you didn't have to have a personal continuing education plan are long past. You need to maintain your own skills and change course as needs warrant.
151 posted on 09/08/2004 7:51:18 PM PDT by snooker
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To: oceanview

The same assistance is available to "Americans," yet they are not attending our engineering schools at the same rate as other "minorities." And many of those "minorities" are staying here and taking those jobs that "Americans" claim are too expensive to get. Do you think it might be because "Americans," when they graduate from high school, cannot find India on a map, or think it's a state between Illinois and Ohio? Has Lou Dobbs ever weighed-in on this issue?


152 posted on 09/08/2004 7:55:51 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Harley Davidson was saved by tariffs. and even today, the US has a tariff on imported light trucks, which is one reason why Mercedes and Nissan build theirs in Alabama and Texas.

I guarantee you, that if car makers made a big move to build assembly plants in China for all their cars, to bring them back to the US - you would see tariffs on those imported autos. Because the auto manufacturing industry is one of the few with enough political clout to make it happen.


153 posted on 09/08/2004 7:55:59 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview
indeed, it seems that most freepers won't be happy until every american has an $8/hr service job. I just do not understand what is wrong with these people.

It's simple. Most of them identify with multi-million dollar corporate executives and at the same time hate the great unwashed scum that comprise working Americans. The fact that most are unsuited for such positions by temperment, training or experience is irrelevent. They live vicariously through the corporate board room.

If we dilute that sector - the more people who move down the income scale, or who hold jobs where their compensation is provided in whole or in part by government (municipal workers, education, health care) - the more Democratic voters we create.

It won't matter in November. Bush will win on the terror issue alone. His lead, while not dominant, will prove to be insurmountable.

The dilution you speak of will have no effect come election day. But George W. Bush will effectively answer to no one come January 20, 2005. If and when the offshoring stampede picks up in earnest during a Bush lame-duck second term, it could very well pave the way for Hillary in '08 with an American version of the European cradle-to-grave socialism now in place in those countries.

154 posted on 09/08/2004 7:56:21 PM PDT by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: oceanview
"sustained $2+ gasoline will change american's buying habits for SUVs/light trucks/minivans"

No it won't. Never has. We had a little dance with that in the early '70's when people were inconvenience by having to wait in line for gas. Now THAT set some people off. It wasn't the price that pissed them off it was the lines. You're from somewhere like California with 2.00$ a gallon gas aren't you? I hope you understand that almost 40% of you gas dollar goes to extroadinary regulation by California. Do you know that California must use separate pipelines from the rest of the world because of the difference in fuel construction? And Californians wonder why Enron peeled their skulls back.

155 posted on 09/08/2004 7:56:59 PM PDT by groanup (Our kids sleep soundly because soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines stand ready to die for us.)
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To: oceanview
And Harley Davidson still makes overpriced crap. And why doesn't Lou Dobbs tell BMW and Nissan to take all the high-paying manufacturing jobs they out-sourced to us and shove them?
156 posted on 09/08/2004 7:58:40 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: searchandrecovery
I used to buy into that whole "race to the bottom" thing, but now I don't. I live in America, I have access to the latest in cheap technology, the internet, and universities.

Generally, for the coolest, newest technology, my experience has been that you find it first in Akihabara (Tokyo's "Electric Town"), not in the U.S. However, it isn't usually all that cheap, unlike the versions that eventually show up in the U.S.

157 posted on 09/08/2004 7:59:27 PM PDT by snowsislander
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To: Age of Reason
Why, I'll bet for everyone of those CEO's making a hundred million a year, there's probably a dozen equally smart Indians who'd stand in line to do that job for 50K a year.

You clearly don't understand business. One of those "smart Indians" could be paid a salary equal to the old CEO and they still wouldn't be able to do the job -- you apparently don't understand what it is they actually do for the company. CEOs aren't really hired for their intelligence or arguably even their vision, and for better or worse, many of those CEOs who command 8-figure salaries and such give better than that in ROI. Not all of them, but many of them.

We've hired top-shelf MegaCorp CEOs to run companies that I've built. Worth every penny more often than not. At the end of the day a business is all about ROI because without it you have no business, and the more assets you can bring into the picture with positive ROI for the company (be it quality CEOs, IP, or whatever) the better it is for the company.

Aside from all this, the outsourcing bogeyman is greatly overblown. Only very small portions of high-tech business can be outsourced with any benefit, and the industry has a lot of experience with it to know what works and what doesn't. Things will no more be outsourced now than they were ten years ago. It is just a current fixation in the media. Most of the jobs that were outsourced have been being outsourced for ages and are the crappy jobs in high-tech. The good (and high-paying) jobs aren't going anywhere.

158 posted on 09/08/2004 8:00:00 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: oceanview
Tarrifs and trade policies can only cover for overblown wage rates for so long. Sooner or later the bill comes due. The cr@p is hitting the fan now. But certainly smart economists have seen this coming for some time.

It never has been a "sin" for restaurants "to charge a price for a meal that was sufficient to provide wages for their legal workers". People will pay whatever price they think the meal is worth in terms of taste, ambiance and service. Restaurants are not subject to global competition as we can't go over seas to get a meal. Restaurants will be impacted by globalism to the extent that they purchase food and equipment from overseas. Labor rates are subject to whatever workers local workers are demanding.

why is it that now in America, we feel that these business have some sort of inalienable right to illegal alien workers, so they can lower their wage costs?

I don't understand this question. Can you explain what you mean.

One side note. I'm sure that most companies that outsource some jobs overseas wish they didn't have to do that. Believe me, from experience, it's not easy and it's not fun. But what can they do? In many cases labor costs are a large part of their total cost of goods. All else being equal they have no choice but to go where the labor costs are lower. Some of this may backfire on companies as i do believe the stats that for years have indicated Americans are among the top most productive workers. And i happen to believe American workers are conscientious workers who really want to do a good job. And so in the long run maybe outsourcing is not the answer after all. But then again, in the long run we're all dead. But in the short run some companies will be dead if they don't follow the cheap labor.
159 posted on 09/08/2004 8:00:56 PM PDT by uncitizen (Beware of fertilizer salesmen and their lawyers. They'll both try to sell you a load of crap.)
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To: snooker

I remember back in the 70s it was MITI who was going to take over the world.

Weak argument. MITI only proves my point. MITI supercharged Japans economy for 2 decades +. It was only when they went to a floating yen and freed some trade barriers that they lost their momentum.


160 posted on 09/08/2004 8:02:24 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror.)
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