Poland presses for World War II compensation

The Jerusalem Post ^ | Sep. 10, 2004 | ASSOCIATED PRESS

[Lukasz]

Polish lawmakers urged the Polish government Friday to seek compensation from Germany for World War II-era damages, a response to claims by some Germans for restitution of former property in Poland.

The resolution, passed unanimously by the lower house, also asserted that Poland has "no financial obligations whatsoever toward German citizens" for the property they lost when Polish borders shifted westward after the war.

The vote was 328-0 with one abstention.

Claims by former German property owners and their descendants have resurfaced as a powerful irritant in relations since the fall of the Iron Curtain - and more immediately since Poland's entry into the European Union on May 1.

A group calling itself the Prussian Claims Society has said it intends to file its first restitution claims in Polish and probably also in European courts this year.

Though Friday's measure is not legally binding, it puts pressure on the government of Prime Minister Marek Belka to raise the issue with Germany, Poland's largest trading partner.

"Poland has not received its due financial compensation or war damages for the enormous damage and material and nonmaterial losses caused by the German aggression, occupation, genocide and loss of independence," the resolution said. It urged the government to "take due steps on the issue against the German government" and asked the government to present an estimate of damage that Poland suffered in the war.

The claim campaign has reopened old wounds in Poland, where the fate of Germans who fled or were expelled at the war's end is viewed with little sympathy given the death and destruction wrought by the Nazis in Poland.

In reply, Polish cities are tallying up damages - led by Warsaw, which was largely destroyed by German troops after the Nazis put down a 1944 uprising by Polish fighters in the capital.

Seeking to dampen Polish concerns, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder indicated in Warsaw last month that his government will advise courts to reject any German citizens' claims against Poland.

In Berlin, the Foreign Ministry would not comment on Friday's parliamentary resolution, but pointed to Schroeder's speech in Warsaw, in which he spoke out against "restitution claims that stand history on its head."

Postwar estimates put wartime material losses at about 40 percent of Poland's national wealth. On that basis, claims now are believed to be worth about US$640 billion, though there is no current overall estimate.

An estimated 12.5 million ethnic Germans were expelled or fled from Poland, then Czechoslovakia and other East European countries when the Third Reich collapsed and the Allies moved the region's borders toward the west.

Poland lost 6 million citizens under the Nazi occupation. For many Poles, the claim campaign suggests Germans are trying to blur the role of victim and perpetrator in World War II.

The daughter of a survivor of the Nazis' Auschwitz death camp recently became the first Pole to sue the German government for suffering inflicted by the Nazis during World War II.

Izabela Brodacka, 60, is demanding a symbolic US$7,300 in a Berlin court. She said it was a symbolic gesture for those who "suffered and who are dying in silence, seeing that history is being rewritten."

[Styria]

It aspired to be all three.

[Grzegorz 246]

"There was no Germany or Poland 1000 years ago..."

Actually there was POLAND a thousand years ago. Poland became a country in 966 and this country was called POLAND.
And this is true that Polish borders in those times were almost exactly the same like today. Perhaps it's not very important in this discussion, but it's just a fact.

[lizol]

People! What the hell is going on!!!!

Everyone should have in mind, that any "compensation from Germany for World War II" was not any issue in Poland until last year probably, when German organisation, so called Union of Expelled and another one called the Prussian Claims Society started to claim their demands on German property left in Poland after WW2.

That's why Polish Parliament decided to carry today's resolution - as a response to German claims (which must be stressed firmly!).

It's just ridiculous, that now, after 60 years someone recalls the ghost of the past - risking a delicate Polish - German reconsiliation (which I consider as an important value itself). I'm realy affraid, that if it goes further - all that "auction of harms" from the past can really affect Polish - German relations very badly and for very long time.

Germany started the war, then were occupying Polish land, they murderred about 6 millions of Polish citizens, they plundered Poland, destroyed Polish cities and infrastructure and they finally lost the war and lost also part of their territory to Poland (as it happen sometimes to those, who lose war) - not by decision of Polish government, but taken by the Big Three (US, UK ad SU). Gone with the wind, game's over.
It's like Cherokees or Sioux decided to file today restitution claims against US government and today's owners of their territory (which was also taken from them by force).

By the way - I also wonder why the Germans don't demand anything from Russia - as former Koenigsberg is now Russian city of Kaliningrad ?

Another "by the way" - Erika Steinbach, the leader of that Union of Expelled was born in Rumia during the WW2. Rumia is a town near city of Gdynia, and before WW2 it was Polish territory. Frau Steinbach was born there, because her father moved to Rumia during German occupation as one of German soldiers occupying Poland. He took a house, that was taken from an expelled Polish owner.
So - if frau Steinbach is supposed to be calleed an "expelled" - so also all the German officials, soldiers, policemen occupying Poland, France, Belgium, Holland, Russia and so on should be called the same way. Total nonsense, isn't it???

[lizol]

Someone should ping Hermann. I'm too scared.

[Lukasz]

See the years right after WWI. Germany was a wrecked country, massive internal disorder, hyper-inflation, massive unemployment - it took what? - 10 years? For a nationalist leader to "turn things around."

Yes but they had little brainwash and they are pretty rich country and after WWI they had devastated economy.

????? There was no Germany or Poland 1000 years ago...

You are wrong, first price of Poland Mieszko I (960-992), 966- Poland became Christian country.

[dfwgator]

It was called Gdansk long before it was called Danzig.


Foundation of the City

Although there were already wooden structures, the year 997 has in recent years been considered to be the date of the foundation of the city itself, as the year in which Saint Adalbert of Prague (sent by the Polish king Boleslav the Brave to baptize his new subjects in Prussia) travelled through the castle of Gdañsk (Gyddanyzc): in 1997 Poland celebrated the millennium of Gdañsk's foundation by Mieszko I, Duke of Poland to compete with the ports of Szczecin and Wolin on the Oder River.

In 1000 Gdañsk belonged to the Pomeranian province of Poland, and to the bishopric in Kolobrzeg, from ca 1015 to the Pomeranian bishopric in Kruszwica, and in 1124 the town had been assigned to the diocese of Wloclawek (Cuiavia and Pomerania), while several crusades were ordered by the popes, to 'christianize' the pagan Prussians.

Spellings of the name from medieval and early modern documents are Gyddanzyc, Kdansk, Gdanzc, Dantzk, Dantzk, Dantzig, Dantzigk, Dantiscum and Gedanum.

[dfwgator]

IOW Gdansk is Polish, and will stay Polish.

[Lukasz]

Koenigsberg back to Poland and Lithuania!! :-))

[lizol]

I'm not sure if the Lithuanians would be interrested in getting it back in cooperation with Poland.

[Grzegorz 246]

"Polish lawmakers urged the Polish government Friday to seek compensation from Germany for World War II-era damages, a response to claims by some Germans for restitution of former property in Poland. "

First of all this Polish statement as you may read is just a response to German claims. Imagine that Japanese want compensations from US government for WW2... I think that no compensations should be paid 60 years after the end of WW2, but it's just unusual that Germans started this discussion about compensations.

"There was no justification for seizing this land and will become a huge political issue if no settlement is found."

Do you know who decide about it ? Stalin, Churchill and FDR so maybe Russian, British and US governments will pay them these compensations. By the way Poland lost much more land in the East.

"Germans, if they were not Nazis, should be able to claim land that was seized from them at the end of WWII. "

Well... and native Americans should be able to claim land that was seized from them after 1492 :-)

Germans lost WW1. They lost all Polish lands, which had been occupied since 18th century. They were "humiliated" by the Wersal[?] Treaty. They felt like the victims, so they chose Adolf, they started WW2... They lost WW2, they lost some land... and it seems that some of them again feel like the victims :-)

[Grzegorz 246]

No !!! I don't want this s**t again ! :-)

[Lukasz]

you are right we will take all without their help! :D

[Dajjal]

????? There was no Germany or Poland 1000 years ago...

[Lukasz]

aha I know what you are affraid of THE ONLY REAL TRUE! :-)

[Grzegorz 246]

Hermann could a guest star in one episode of "X Files".
It would be called "BIG LIE - the real [German] victims of WW2". Polish people would be beasts, who were sent by the aliens - they wanted to kill all the German innocent civilians. In 2004 they started doing it again. They want to kill Hermann - agent Fox Mulder has to protect him, because these beasts are everywhere - they found him even on FR !

[dfwgator]

I've got that First Day Issue, wonder how much it's worth now, haven't checked the ol stamp collection in awhile.

[floridarolf]

If the Polish want reparations they should seek the help of Ed Fagan. He will sue Germany at a court in Smallville/Alabama. The Villagejudge will decide that Poland is entitled to get 2 Trillion Us Dollar from Germany (one third for Ed).

[qwertz]

I personally have lots of sympathy for the Poles, but sorry: politically they're a bit, excuse me, stupid.

What's the point of pissing off the best friend they have inside the EU today? If they've succeeded in alienating Germany who else in the EU is their friend? Who in the EU will support them, financially and politically?
They, the brand-new member, have managed to annoy everyone else in the EU, including the rest of New Europe.

Poles have a thing for seriously overplaying their hand. Their national mindset is traditionally fluctuating between megalomania and paranoia. Paranoia thanks to their victim's mindset, megalomania because of a demand to be recognized as one of the big guys, as a key player. Which they aren't, neither given their size - nor their economy. I wonder what %age of their economy runs on stealing German cars.

Their attitude towards Europe is neurotic at best. They still haven't understood what the EU is about. Poles seem to think the EU is only about handing them money as just compensation for WWII and the Iron Curtain.

National myths of heroism and historical woes (in which, I hate to say it, they're being supported ATM by Americans for political reasons) keep the Poles detached from the realities of today's Europe.

Someone needs to tell the Poles it was a stupid idea right after WWI to both attack Germany AND the Soviet Union (and Lithuania, and later even participate in the partition of Czechoslovakia), even though both looked weak at that moment. Because 20 years later they weren't. It's a mere fluke of history Poles are still around. They could very well be speaking German, and Russian today; and if it wasn't for someone on the other side of the globe deciding to bail them out, they would.

Will America be there in 30 or 50 years if Poles again have made both Germans and Russians enemies, and they've destroyed the EU which protects them? Who knows?

Which brings me to another point: Poles don't seem to understand the concept of divide et impera, which is somewhat strange since their own country has been partitioned a couple times.
Why did the Polish partitions of the late 18th century happen? Someone needs to tell the Poles the historical truth: because your elites sold out to foreign interests - specifically Russia (and Prussia). And because the abuse of the Polish institution of liberum veto (all bills had to passed by unanimous consent) had made the country next to ungovernable. Someone had to run the country, and Russians, Prussians and Austrians took over. Poland had been a failing state.

Now the EU runs on a similar principle of consent, and guess what: the Poles are again wielding their mighty veto to bring the EU to a screeching halt. Again their elites are proxies of interests that are not their own, they're selling out for a temporary boost of self-importance they're getting from a pat on the back from the Iraq war. They don't realize that temporary influence stemming from a naturally selfish foreign power (be it Moscow or Washington) can only be borrowed, it's only granted as long as you play along with the foreign power's plans, and be taken away any time - while the influence you have in Brussels is institutional, and based on common interests.

One day the Iraq episode will be history, one day Republicans will be gone in Washington - and one day America again will have lost interest in Poland.

If Americans are real friends of Poland, they need to tell the Poles: stop PMS'ing abot stupid *hit, and get along with Germans.

[Grzegorz 246]

First of all: Did you know that most users here are Polish when you wrote this great statement ? I am stupid and my national mindset "is traditionally fluctuating between megalomania and paranoia"... Yes Mr qwertz ?

Just show us your nationality Mr qwertz, but please don't tell me that you are Swiss German.

One more thing :
"Will America be there in 30 or 50 years if Poles again have made both Germans and Russians enemies"
No. In 30 or 50 years America will be probably Mexican colony.

[Grzegorz 246]

By the way... Had you at least read this article and other posts before you wrote your great statement ? I doubt it.