Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Growing: Movement is new form of evangelism
Religion News ^ | Dec 7th,2004

Posted on 12/07/2004 5:12:03 AM PST by missyme

As we enter the 21st century, a vital new expression of Christianity is growing in the United States and worldwide. This movement even has a name. It is called "the Emergent Church."

This movement expresses what I call "progressive evangelicalism," because it emphasizes traditional evangelical beliefs - affirming the doctrines of the Apostle's Creed, a high view of Scripture and the importance of a personal transforming relationship with a resurrected Christ - yet rejects the structures and styles of institutionalized Christianity. The Emergent Church

The Emergent Church turns away from spending money on buildings. Instead, most congregations meet as "house churches" or gather in makeshift storefronts and warehouses.

Emergent churches espouse a decentralized grassroots form of Christianity that rejects the hierarchal systems of denominational churches. Each emergent congregation makes its own decisions by consensus.

Leadership is fluid, with all members sharing authority and participating in the mission of the church. Task forces are assembled to undertake such specific programs as feeding the homeless, establishing a partnership with a Third World church, developing an after-school tutoring program for disadvantaged children or organizing people in a poor neighborhood to solve pressing social problems.

The missionary programs of such congregations are committed to direct involvement with those they decide to serve. These churches want little to do with bureaucratic organizations with professional administrators. Members of these congregations want to be involved personally with those in need. They want to know the names and faces of the people they serve.

Emergent congregations must not be confused with those nondenominational mega-churches that seem to be popping up increasingly in communities across the nation. In fact, the two are markedly different.

Emergent churches often express a disdain for the "contemporary-worship music" heard in many mega-churches.

The worship in emergent churches often includes classical music, and such congregations often follow a more formal liturgical style that may even incorporate such ancient forms of praying as that of monastic orders.

The people who join emergent congregations are often folks who have tired of what goes on in churches that have "contemporary services."

A postmodern mindset

The Emergent Church is often somewhat indifferent to theological and social issues that seem urgent to mainstream evangelicalism. These church members tend to think that the crusade against homosexual marriage is a waste of time and energy, and they tend to reject the exclusivistic claims that many evangelicals make about salvation.

They are not about to damn the likes of Gandhi or the Dali Lama to hell simply because they have not embraced Christianity.

In many ways, these Christians express a postmodern mindset that may come across as being somewhat "new age."

They see care for the environment as a major Christian responsibility. They are attracted to Christian mysticism. They talk a great deal about "spiritual formation" and focus significant attention on the healing of illnesses through prayer.

This new expression of Christianity is growing faster than most sociologists could have predicted. It is thriving, in part, because so many people are fed up with the arguing and pettiness that they claim are all too evident in the rest of Christendom.

It remains to be seen whether the Emergent Church will fade away or become an ongoing expression of Christianity.

But there is no question that it is attracting many sophisticated Christians who contend that traditional mainline churches are devoid of vitality and mega-churches are irrelevantly narrow.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: emergentchurch; evangelicals
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-160 next last
To: CharlieOK1
I am a Baptist and strong in my Christian beliefs, but this is something that I have struggled with.

What's the struggle? God isn't a nice guy. Heaven is the most exclusive country club there is. God is a tough love Judge of All.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. -- Matthew 7

51 posted on 12/07/2004 10:04:44 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: missyme
I have been involved in what this writers calls emergent churches. Met in homes and schools or Seventh Day buildings.

None accepted homosexuality as anything but sin, no more or less wrong than stealing or murder.

Most Christians take serious the good stewards command of the Lord, caring for the environment is not a emergent church phenomenon.

These Emergent Church are fundamentalists, true believers in the authority of Christ and His Word, not man made doctrine. Men are the head of the house, children are central to purpose, congregations function according to the Word.

While some fringe groups may be liberal and "accepting", the real movement towards these churches is conservative in nature. This author is either ignorant or is trying to sway Christians from even visiting these Congregations.

52 posted on 12/07/2004 10:04:45 AM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black

Are you saying predestination contradicts salvation through Christ?


53 posted on 12/07/2004 10:12:03 AM PST by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Tares
I think he is referring to the "I am saved and now I go on living my life" mentality of many "Christians".

I see it all the time. They are saved, but you'd have to ask to know it. They are still on mashed potatoes, no red meat. No doctrine or understanding of the Word beyond Sunday school lessons and cannot answer the difficult questions.

Obedience is not an option, it is a requirement and something to strive for daily.

While works will not save you, they are a demonstration of your Faith. If you love Him you will feed His sheep.

We are to be the salt and the light. If we look and act like the world we will only blend in.
54 posted on 12/07/2004 10:19:35 AM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: maestro; CharlieOK1
"St. John 14:6 ?.................What part of,..... "NO".....don't you understand?"

What did I write that made you think I disagree with that in any way? LOL

What I wrote AFFIRMS what is written there.

I also AFFIRM this: Luke 23:42-43.

Now - did the thief know EXACTLY who he was talking to or not?

Yes he did. And he believed in Jesus BECAUSE of one thing: Matt. 16:15-17; John 10:29; 17:6

Anything there with which you disagree?

55 posted on 12/07/2004 10:23:39 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: A.J.Armitage

Yes.


56 posted on 12/07/2004 10:27:28 AM PST by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: BibChr

We have several of those churches locally. One is a merger of two small churches. Very evangelical and contemporary. They seem to have eschewed politics. The UMC plant is very touchy feely, like a social club. There is a Southern Baptist plant and an RP plant. The Southern Baptist is homey and the RP is very stiff and traditional.

Of course all of them hide their denomination links. The one old-timer, an independent startup, is very conservative and growing rapidly.


57 posted on 12/07/2004 10:31:08 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black

Salvation implies that the door is open to all. One chooses to walk through it. What does predestination assume. That it is already decided. So why prostelitize? And more important where does that leave free will? I realize these issues were all thrashed out in the reformation and early years of colonists in America. Sadly I'm not real familiar with the arguments. I have not studied Protestant Theology either in school, nor in much depth on my own. I was raised Catholic and predestination is definately not a part of Catholic teaching.

I would be interested in being educated, but not flamed.


58 posted on 12/07/2004 10:33:14 AM PST by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black
You are in my area, what Church are you going to?

Crossroads? New Beginnings?

I know of a "emergent" church down I205 and one in Brush Prairie if your interested.
59 posted on 12/07/2004 10:34:22 AM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black
"Well the Dali Lama is still alive. Gandhi is dead. Does that make a difference? If you go to your death an unbeliever don't most mainstream Protestants (no path to the father except through me, etc) think you go to hell?"

Oops! My mistake. I take it back about Gandhi. LOL (At least from what I know of him before he died).

M-PI: "Where there's life, there's hope that they (and many others) are one of God's elect (that he chose before the foundation of the earth."

".....Where does that leave salvation through Christ?"

You have a lot of objective studying to do - if you're emotionally capable of it.

And please excuse me, but I only engage in debate with objective people who don't begin with a false premise subject to preconceived, ill-conceived notions.

60 posted on 12/07/2004 10:36:45 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: missyme

Funny how nobody has asked the question: Who's making the money? Did Jesus make any money? How much does the moneymaker make? And...Why is religion based on money?


61 posted on 12/07/2004 10:37:21 AM PST by Utah Binger (maynarddixon.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: missyme

I see it as underground church setting up the necessary cadres for when we won't be allowed to worship Christ in public. I am a part of several small groups in homes and other places that, as of now, are supplementary to my regular church experience. We call it "Doing Life Deeper" and "Partnering with Others on our Spiritual Journey." Those aren't trademarks or anything, but we say them often enough that they need quotes.


62 posted on 12/07/2004 10:38:15 AM PST by johnb838 ("To Hell They Will Go" -- The Iyad Allawi Story.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mamzelle

Ho 'bout Jed Smock? Remember him?


63 posted on 12/07/2004 10:39:07 AM PST by johnb838 ("To Hell They Will Go" -- The Iyad Allawi Story.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: dawn53

Lakewood had quadrupled in the last five years. It's hard for me to see how Christianity is dying because it's going great guns here in the south. But I realize more and more communists and liberals are choosing hell.


64 posted on 12/07/2004 10:41:34 AM PST by johnb838 ("To Hell They Will Go" -- The Iyad Allawi Story.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black

Here is some information from the horses mouth:

http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/

http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/Spurgeon-Calvinism.html


65 posted on 12/07/2004 10:42:38 AM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Theophilus
Salvation: the free gift that costs everybody everything but is worth even more.

Christ is the only one who paid for salvation. He paid for it on the cross.

66 posted on 12/07/2004 10:50:58 AM PST by Tares
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777
Obedience is not an option, it is a requirement and something to strive for daily.

Obedience is a requirement for what?

67 posted on 12/07/2004 10:53:25 AM PST by Tares
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Utah Binger
Money and Authority will always be the down fall of "churches".

They forget the purpose of the Congregation and the Congregation gladly gives up its responsibility.

Think about it though: I live a hectic life with family friends and work. I have little time to serve others, so I gladly "tithe" to the church who I know will do great things with my money (a representation of my time and energy).

I invite unsaved friends to church or encourage the nonbeliever to go to church or speak with my pastor.

I make sure that on Sunday morning my kids go to a separate class than I and that they get a playful lesson and a cookie.

It is all about moving responsibility to the church and away from me.

68 posted on 12/07/2004 10:55:28 AM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Tares
"Obedience is a requirement for what?"

He doesn't understand imputed righteousness.

69 posted on 12/07/2004 10:57:37 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Tares
Obedience is a requirement for what?

Love for Christ.

If you love Me, you will keep my
commandments.

You cannot love Christ and ignore His commandments.

Forgiveness is required by the saved because they cannot maintain obedience, but the lack of effort is a lack of love for Christ.

70 posted on 12/07/2004 11:01:09 AM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
What's to struggle with? Remember the thief on the cross? He was one of God's Elect, but it wasn't evident until the very day he died.

...died...??????

.......or, better.......????

What's to struggle with? Remember the thief on the cross? He was one of God's Elect, but it wasn't evident until the very day he BELIEVED.

.................................????????....................

???.....Acts 16:30-31.........is it 'shalt',....or 'might'....?

(Titus 1:2.........Romans 10:17)

71 posted on 12/07/2004 11:02:08 AM PST by maestro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: maestro

I don't hop in the boats of one-armed boat-rowers. Sorry to disappoint you.


72 posted on 12/07/2004 11:07:18 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: xzins; editor-surveyor; fortheDeclaration
......ping!

Come on board!

Rower needed?

:-)

73 posted on 12/07/2004 11:12:23 AM PST by maestro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
Declaration of justice follows the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the regenerated sinner.

Regeneration occurs after repentance of ones sins and the acceptance of Salvation through (only) Christ Jesus.

Biblical repentance as preached by John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Apostles, involved a change of heart and mind towards God and sin that results in a change of life: obedience.

74 posted on 12/07/2004 11:13:01 AM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777
Forgiveness is required by the saved because they cannot maintain obedience, but the lack of effort is a lack of love for Christ.

Salvation is not dependent on one's obedience.
Salvation is not dependent on the amount of one's effort to be obedient.
Salvation is not dependent on the amount of one's love for Christ.

Obedience is a fruit of salvation.
Effort to be obedient is a fruit of salvation.
Love for Christ is a fruit of salvation.

75 posted on 12/07/2004 11:28:44 AM PST by Tares (We love Him because He first loved us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777
"Regeneration occurs after repentance "

You have it backwards.

76 posted on 12/07/2004 11:41:09 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: missyme

What's old is new and what's new shall become old again.


77 posted on 12/07/2004 11:43:16 AM PST by Tempest (Click on my name for a long list of press contacts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tares
"Obedience is a fruit of salvation. Effort to be obedient is a fruit of salvation. Love for Christ is a fruit of salvation."

God the Father only sees Jesus when he looks at his redeemed. The righteousness of Christ is the only righteousness that is acceptable to him.

That's why the righteousness of Christ must be IMPUTED to the redeemed. The righteous deeds of men are as menstrous rags to God. He isn't pleased by them and he won't accept them.

That reeeeeeeally makes some people mad, too. Hahahaha

78 posted on 12/07/2004 11:49:33 AM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: GraniteStateConservative
The Old Testament made Christians tough and the New Testament taught us love. Tough Love.

Many Christians have lost sight of not defending their own religion because they are afraid they might offend some non believer.

I wonder on Judgment day how many good Christians will find out that God was very angry with them for not sticking up for his word.
79 posted on 12/07/2004 11:52:08 AM PST by OKIEDOC (LL THE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777
From your link:

Unconditional Election

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8).

Where does this leave free will? God chose some for damnation at the start of the universe, there is no hope for them. They will not hear the Gospel, or if they do will not accept it, or if they do will not be saved?

80 posted on 12/07/2004 12:01:22 PM PST by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Tares
"God...commandeth all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). This repentance is a change of mind that agrees with God that one is a sinner, and also agrees with what Jesus did for us on the Cross.


How can one be Saved without repentance? Without obedience to the "rules" and Faith of Salvation?

In Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: "...'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' And they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved... .' "

"Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32).

Believing the Gospel as only Christ defines it is the act of obedience towards God. Christ commands us to believe and Faith is obedience to that commandment.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

81 posted on 12/07/2004 12:04:45 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: A.J.Armitage

See #58 which was for you but mis-addressed.


82 posted on 12/07/2004 12:05:07 PM PST by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
That reeeeeeeally makes some people really mad., too. Hahahaha

Leave off the ha ha. It's not a laughing matter.

83 posted on 12/07/2004 12:06:43 PM PST by Tares
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Tares
"Leave off the ha ha. It's not a laughing matter."

Sorry, but I'll laugh if I want to.

But you're right. There's nothing more pathetic than arrogant man succumbing to the temptation to believe that he is a god. [Genesis 3:4-5]

84 posted on 12/07/2004 12:13:58 PM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: missyme
Seattle, with its largely unchurched but spiritual population
This statement is not all that conforting...
85 posted on 12/07/2004 12:15:42 PM PST by Libertina (Dino Rossi - elected TWICE as Governor of Washington State!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black

I am not Calvinist, I have just found that site helpful in understanding the doctrine.


86 posted on 12/07/2004 12:17:33 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777

Much appreciated. It is helpful, I agree.


87 posted on 12/07/2004 12:18:58 PM PST by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
I am not sure if you are talking about me (around me) or not?

Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father except through Him.

No works or obedience will save you, except the obedience of Salvation. You must obey the commandment to Believe on Jesus to be saved.

Salvation is freely given to anyone who will obey and receive.

88 posted on 12/07/2004 12:23:32 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777; Jack Black

"I am not Calvinist, I have just found that site helpful in understanding the doctrine" ~ CyberCowboy777

See if this is helpful:

Emory Report November 29, 1999 Volume 52, No. 13
http://www.emory.edu/EMORY_REPORT/erarchive/1999/November/ernovember.29/11_29_99hamilton.html

"...Marci Hamilton ... [is] a nationally recognized expert on
constitutional and copyright law. ....


Her forthcoming book, Copyright and the Constitution, examines the
historical and philosophical underpinnings of copyright law and asserts
that the American "copyright regime" is grounded in Calvinism, resulting in
a philosophy that favors the product over the producer.


Calvinism? Hamilton's interest in the intersection of Calvinist theology
and political philosophy emerged early in her career when she began reading
the work of leading constitutional law scholars. She was puzzled by their
"theme of a system of self-rule." "They talked about it as if it were in
existence," she said. "My gut reaction was that direct democracy and
self-rule are a myth that doesn't really exist."


What Hamilton found was that a "deep and abiding distrust of human motives
that permeates Calvinist theology also permeates the Constitution." Her
investigation of that issue has led to another forthcoming book,
tentatively titled The Reformed Constitution: What the Framers Meant by
Representation.


That our country's form of government is a republic instead of a pure
democracy is no accident, according to Hamilton. The constitutional framers
"expressly rejected direct democracy. Instead, the Constitution constructs
a representative system of government that places all ruling power in the
hands of elected officials."


And the people? Their power is limited to the voting booth and
communication with their elected representatives, she said. "The
Constitution is not built on faith in the people, but rather on distrust of
all social entities, including the people." ...


..Two of the most important framers, James Wilson and James Madison, were
steeped in Presbyterian precepts.


It is Calvinism, Hamilton argued, that "more than any other Protestant
theology, brings together the seeming paradox that man's will is corrupt by
nature but also capable of doing good." In other words, Calvinism holds
that "we can hope for the best but expect the worst from each other and
from the social institutions humans devise."


"Neither Calvin nor the framers stop at distrust, however," Hamilton said.
"They also embrace an extraordinary theology of hope. The framers, like
Calvin, were reformers." -Elaine Justice


89 posted on 12/07/2004 12:24:20 PM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777; Jack Black

The 55 Framers of the Constitution (from North to South):

John Langdon, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nicholas Gilman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Elbridge Gerry, Episcoplian (Calvinist)
Rufus King, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Caleb Strong, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nathaniel Gorham, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Roger Sherman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Samuel Johnson, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Oliver Ellsworth, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Alexander Hamilton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Lansing, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
Robert Yates, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
William Patterson, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
William Livingston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jonathan Dayton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
David Brearly, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Churchill Houston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Benjamin Franklin, Christian in his youth, Deist in later years, then back
to his Puritan background in his old age (his June 28, 1787 prayer at the
Constitutional Convention was from no "Deist")
Robert Morris, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
James Wilson, probably a Deist
Gouverneur Morris, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas Mifflin, Lutheran (Calvinist-lite)
George Clymer, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas FitzSimmons, Roman Catholic
Jared Ingersoll, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
John Dickinson, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Read, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Richard Bassett, Methodist
Gunning Bedford, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jacob Broom, Lutheran
Luther Martin, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Daniel Carroll, Roman Catholic
John Francis Mercer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McHenry, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Daniel of St Thomas Jennifer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Washington, Episcopalian (Calvinist; no, he was not a deist)
James Madison, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Mason, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Edmund Jennings Randolph, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James Blair, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McClung, ?
George Wythe, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Richardson Davie, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Hugh Williamson, Presbyterian, possibly later became a Deist
William Blount, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Alexander Martin, Presbyterian/Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Rutledge, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, III, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Abraham Baldwin, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Leigh Pierce, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Houstoun, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Few, Methodist


90 posted on 12/07/2004 12:27:07 PM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777
How can one be Saved without repentance?

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. - Ezekiel 36:16-32

Repentance is a fruit of God's saving love.

91 posted on 12/07/2004 12:32:46 PM PST by Tares
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
The 55 Framers of the Constitution (from North to South):

Still posting that tired old propaganda list I see.

BigMack

92 posted on 12/07/2004 12:32:49 PM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
I have much to agree with Calvin, except that God predetermined damnation.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world through him might be saved.

If you read through the site I posted you will see much that I am in total agreement with. But I cannot reconcile hope for total Salvation with predetermined damnation.
93 posted on 12/07/2004 12:33:29 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Tares
I will take Jesus literal in His words, will that work?

Mark
1:14 Now after John was arrested, Jesus came to Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God,
1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news."
94 posted on 12/07/2004 12:43:22 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (We want hard, tough, seasoned leaders who will methodically destroy the people who would kill us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777
"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news."

Does a Christian get a new heart from God because he has repented and believed, or does he repent and believe because God has given him a new heart?

95 posted on 12/07/2004 12:52:07 PM PST by Tares
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black
"Free will" is an attempt to have man contribute to his own salvation. Man does have a will, but it is enslaved, and hates and cannot choose for God.

Your problem right now seems to be with the Calvinists, who teach double predestination. How about reading some Martin Chemnitz instead? =)

Formula of Concord - Epitome. II. Free Will.

Formula of Concord - Solid Declaration. II. Free Will, or Human Powers.

96 posted on 12/07/2004 12:56:18 PM PST by Styria
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk

Ping.

Where can I sign up?


97 posted on 12/07/2004 12:58:10 PM PST by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. words mean things!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black
Salvation implies that the door is open to all.

"Whosoever will, may come".

And also:

"Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens."

One chooses to walk through it.

And another doesn't. Why?

What does predestination assume. That it is already decided.

Since the Bible says the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world, that's a good assumption to make.

So why prostelitize?

Because Jesus said so.

And more important where does that leave free will?

More important? Why is being able to proudly quote the last lines of Invictus more important than the direct command from Christ to teach all nations?

I was raised Catholic and predestination is definately not a part of Catholic teaching.

Augustine would disagree, although it's now impossible to be Augustinian in both soteriology and ecclesiology (the Jansenists tried mightily, and it didn't work).

I would be interested in being educated, but not flamed.

This is a great resource.

98 posted on 12/07/2004 1:00:04 PM PST by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: CyberCowboy777
"But I cannot reconcile hope for total Salvation with predetermined damnation."

You would do well do engage in an objective study of the subject of reprobation. You don't understand it.

Your comments seem to indicate that you disapprove of the God who said this: Romans 9: 20-22

God has a hard time living up to the high standards of some who can't conceive of a god that they don't approve of.

99 posted on 12/07/2004 1:00:27 PM PST by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: missyme
This sounded real good, until the following jumped out:

These church members ... tend to reject the exclusivistic claims that many evangelicals make about salvation.
     They are not about to damn the likes of Gandhi or the Dali Lama to hell simply because they have not embraced Christianity.

So much for any alleged "high view of Scripture" mentioned earlier. Scripture is crystal clear about the exclusivity of salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. Without Him, Gandhi and Dali Lama are destined for hell. (And, by the way, we don't damn them.)

Oh, well. Another cult bites the dust...

100 posted on 12/07/2004 1:05:42 PM PST by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. words mean things!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-160 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson