How to talk to an atheist (and you must)

Townhall.com ^ | January 24, 2005 | Mike S. Adams

[7thson]

When I pulled into the parking lot this morning, I saw a car covered with sacrilegious bumper stickers. It seemed obvious to me that the owner was craving attention. I’m sure he was also seeking to elicit anger from people of faith. The anger helps the atheist to justify his atheism. And, all too often, the atheist gets exactly what he is looking for.

[DannyTN]

Here's what Ignatious actually wrote. From his epistle to the Ephesians

CHAPTER XVI.--THE FATE OF FALSE TEACHERS.

Do not err, my brethren. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If, then, those who do this as respects the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with any one who corrupts by wicked doctrine the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such an one becoming defiled [in this way], shall go away into everlasting fire, and so shall every one that hearkens unto him.

CHAPTER XVII.--BEWARE OF FALSE DOCTRINES.

For this end did the Lord suffer the ointment to be poured upon His head, that He might breathe immortality into His Church. Be not ye anointed with the bad odour of the doctrine of the prince of this world; let him not lead you away captive from the life which is set before you. And why are we not all prudent, since we have received the knowledge of God, which is Jesus Christ? Why do we foolishly perish, not recognising the gift which the Lord has of a truth sent to us?

[mugs99]

The Christians were all tyrants doing the King's biding ? LOL

No, you tried to use your family history to show that America was Christian. My family history would show just the opposite. You make a big deal of your ancestors coming here in 1705. I can play that silly game too. My European ancestors were Dutch seamen and trappers who were in America ten years before the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock. All any of this proves is that the best of our roots lie buried in the ground. We have no bigger claim on America than anyone else.

Stark is an atheist and I find this source cited a lot on atheism websites.

Stark is the author of Victories Of Reason: How Christianity Freedom And Capitalism Led To Western Success, and I find this source quoted on many Christian websites. He credits Christianity and capitalism for our success.

You guys are quick to quote him as a Christian defender of the faith when he praises Christianity, yet you'll call him an Atheist when he dares to use fact you don't like.

America when it was difficult for many to get to church. But "membership" is not the issue. Belief is

You're grasping at straws. The issue is whether America is a Christian country. It is not. Many of our founders wrote of their dislike of Christianity. That is history.
...

[missyme]

Missyme, (assuming you are still with us), you scare me.


It's not me you have to be scared of...However you need to be sacred on Judgement Day...

[SQUID]

true, in which case the country wouldn't be really religious now would they?

[DannyTN]

"I find it interesting that Jesus rebuked Thomas for his doubt but wound up providing the evidence that thomas required. There are lots of interpretations concerning the need for faith. I have faith that curiosity and skepticism are not mortal sins."

Jesus did the same thing with the Pharisees who wanted Jesus to perform miracles for them to prove he was the Messiah.

First He slammed them and called them wicked and perverse for needing a sign. Then he gave them a HUGE sign. He gave them the sign of Jonah. A Prophecy that one have been hard to miss.

[DannyTN]

Post 621 was to you

[TheGunny]

Its not about intelligent dialog, its about a lost soul damned to eternal separation from his creator.</p>

[Selkie]

The Christians were all tyrants doing the King's biding ? LOL No, you tried to use your family history to show that America was Christian. My family history would show just the opposite. You make a big deal of your ancestors coming here in 1705. I can play that silly game too. My European ancestors were Dutch seamen and trappers who were in America ten years before the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock. All any of this proves is that the best of our roots lie buried in the ground. We have no bigger claim on America than anyone else. Stark is an atheist and I find this source cited a lot on atheism websites. Stark is the author of Victories Of Reason: How Christianity Freedom And Capitalism Led To Western Success, and I find this source quoted on many Christian websites. He credits Christianity and capitalism for our success. You guys are quick to quote him as a Christian defender of the faith when he praises Christianity, yet you'll call him an Atheist when he dares to use fact you don't like. America when it was difficult for many to get to church. But "membership" is not the issue. Belief is You're grasping at straws. The issue is whether America is a Christian country. It is not. Many of our founders wrote of their dislike of Christianity. That is history>>>

I'm late for cooking dinner, but instead checked my ping list. Silly me. I didnt make a big deal about my mother's ancestors all arriving here by 1705.

I had to include information to show my personal points. The vast majority of my relations who lived in America from 1694 and onwards were Christian. From the stats you posted that would make them a total anomaly.

And nowhere did I post that I have a bigger claim on America than anyone else. (except for my American Indian lineage :P LOL j/k )

I would never quote Stark as a defender of the faith and I wonder about Christians who need a sociologist's findings to bolster their faith. He neithr defends nor condemns Christianity, he merely reports his interpretation of data he's explored.

You say that MANY of our founders wrote their dislike of Christianity. Why do you say many ? Some, but not many.

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm

[qam1]

I would like to see a monument that reflects and glorifies atheism, in the same way as crosses and chapels reflect and glorify Christianity, statues of Buddha glorify Buddhism, and flag-carrying American Eagles glorify the USA.

There was actually a little one proposed, But it was stopped by none other than Mr. Freedom of Religion himself Judge Roy Moore.

So he's out there claiming his religious freedom is being taken away because he's not allowed to put up his monument, Yet he denied Atheist the same right. Gee, with actions like these I wonder why Christians are often tagged with the label of being hypocrites.  

In a peevish moment I suggested that a coil of rusty barbed wire would be a good monument to what atheism brought us. But I am not an atheist, so my artistic choices don't count.

The monument for Atheist would have been a sculpture of an Atom, I like that idea because it represents all the wonderful science that Atheist have brought us despite so many Christians trying to suppress it.

[qam1]

The military even has a symbol for atheism.

BWAAA? What is it?

http://www.militaryhistoryinstone.com/emblems.php

[Dataman]

I wouldn't know how else to explain a Michael Newdow, a Richard Lewontin, a Noam Chomsky, et al., than that they are "inverted" (unnatural) people, trying to invert the world into a "more pleasing shape." (E.g., as much unlike the one God "shaped" as possible.... FWIW

Would it be too simplistic to posit that the above mentioned characters are the centers of their own universes and that the existence of God spoils such narcissism? Therefore, His existence shall be denied not because it causes Him to not exist, but because it allows self-centered, postmodern universes to temporarily prosper "for a season."

[JWinNC]

Please check out post 537 - which of these do you consider a true atheist?

Only what you describe as a "strong" atheist. That's a true atheist. One who believes absolutely there is no god. I meet very few people like that.

I think that I concur with you. We just differ in terminology.

I think you can divide the agnostic into hard and soft. The "soft" one thinks there is no God (or at least no current evidence), but is open to the possibility. The "hard" one thinks there is no God and no way to prove it and no way to find out. Both leave the door open at least a little.

To a true atheist there is no difference between God, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Great Pumpkin, or any other fantasy or "fiction." So, when an "atheist" IS concerned about God, for example an actively anti-Christian person (Michael Newdow comes to mind), then you know something else is going on. They are probably not atheists. They may very well be anti-theists.

An anti-theist and an atheist are not the same. The anti-theist is, as the name implies, against god. It isn’t enough for the anti-theist to leave people alone with their belief or their “fiction.” The anti-theist seeks to fight and stop the “theists.” This fight is aimed at Christ and Christians the vast majority of the time.

Peace,
jw

[Matchett-PI]

"I disbelieve because I cannot believe. It is that simple."

And despite what even many professing Christians want to believe, you are exactly right. Acts 13:48; 1 pet.2:8; Jude 4

[PleaseNoMore]

You are ruthless. You know that don't you? :o)

[RightWingAtheist]

Well, people at FR, even the most devout religious folk, mostly speak nicely and respectfully to me. I get criticized more for my sick sense of humor than anything else.

[RightWingAtheist]

That's true more for the blue-state bigots who automatically think any one who voted for Bush is an ignorant bible-thumping fundamentalist than for atheists in general.

[1john2 3and4]

The "Late to the Party" alert was several hundred posts ago, and I have been reading this thread with much interest. (For two days!)

I've been wondering why no Christian has asked you about the Old Testament. That is as surprising to me as the calmness your posts evidence.

I may have been like you at one time....maybe not as eloquent, reasoned, or 'convinced'....but close enough. Hey, I tried atheism, ok?...there just weren't enough holidays, know what I mean?

It was the fulfillment of prophecy that changed my mind, got me thinking. I wonder then, I believe you mentioned you know a great deal of scripture (backaways)....what do you make of Nebuchadnezzar's (statue) dream - in Daniel?

I was forced to two conclusions like the one you mentioned re: the New Testament = 'written by committee', or God. The committee conclusion....regarding that particular dream, was just way too untenable. It was not possible for me to wrap my mind around such a conspiracy...so knowledgeable, so accurate....given the timing(date) of the texts. Just curious as to how you might balance the fulfillment of that vision out....how you might explain it. Peace!

[Diverdogz]

I think you can divide the agnostic into hard and soft. The "soft" one thinks there is no God (or at least no current evidence), but is open to the possibility. The "hard" one thinks there is no God and no way to prove it and no way to find out. Both leave the door open at least a little.

A "Soft atheist", also called "Weak Atheist". I'm not fond of either term, preferring "Agnostic" instead. But there isn't a nickels worth of difference between them. As an Agnostic, I don't believe that I can say for certain that there is a god or gods or not. Further, If I were to assume that there were a god (or gods), I have no reason to believe that it, being a supreme being, needs a thing from me in terms of worship or whatever. I can't see any reason to satisfy its needs as I don't know any of the properties of the supreme being and what it desires, if it even exits in the first place. Hey, if it made everything around me and me as well, it can make whatever it needs to satisfy itself. With all that capability and production capacity, its hard to believe it to so insecure as to require mere worship from mere humans. Oy Vey!

So, until a supreme being reveals itself and explains its need for human comfort, I'll worry about what is necessary to carve out an honorable, meaningful, fulfilling life on terms that I, in the spirit of my human nature, desire.

My mate, my friends, my dog, good food, red wine, good books, good health, exercise (swimming and cycling), some scuba diving, a few well deserved atta boy's at work, a modest but well maintained house, good music, the freedom to live as I like (as a direct result of my extremely fortunate circumstance of having been born in the best country on the planet)....and oh yes, a speedy internet connection. Wow, to marvel at the works of others, architcture, inventions, art, music, ideas.... That's about all I need to need to be happy and healthy. At some point, hopefully long and far into the future, I'll die.

[malakhi]

Simple, you can choose to pretend to believe. As a child and young adult, I tried and tried to believe, but it just didn't take. I 'pretended' to believe by going to church and even participating in bible study activities. Eventually, I realized that I really didn't believe, and also realized that church was largely a social occasion for me, and stopped going.

Exactly. You either really believe, forthrightly don't believe, or engage in hypocrisy. You don't "choose" to believe. It's not like ordering off a menu.

[malakhi]

Why are you somewhat unwelcoming to people encouraging you to believe?

How welcoming are you to people who endlessly proselytize you to change your beliefs? I'd guess you'd be rather less patient and courteous than MineralMan has been.