Posted on 01/26/2005 9:46:21 AM PST by 7thson
I agree. I just don't think all behavior is motivated by a desire for a reward or punishment from God.
If I have devised a fool-proof way to steal X dollars from somebody - my employer, the old person that I know, the government, whoever - and I know that it can't be traced to me, what do I do?
I've got a heck of a lot better chances of propagating my genes with cash than without, eh?
> An example of a REAL atheist living according to his beliefs would be the main character in the movie "Natural Born Killers."
Uh, no. That would be a "psychopath," not an atheist.
> For without God, life truly has no meaning whatsoever.
Says you. Atheists, agnostics and whatnot make their *own* meaning.
But believe me when I say... you scare me. I'm glad in your case that you have religion, as it seems to be the only thing you think holds you back from being a mad-dog killer. But also believe me when I say that you have a dearth of understandign of human nature... most people, religion or no, have no interest in bahaving as you would were you convinced of the non-existence of God.
"Or, in fact, a Christian. Oh they might *tell* you they are, but ask another Christian of a different denomination, and they'll set you right..."
Depends on the denomination. Most of them are quite accepting of their brother and sister fellowships as under the same shepherd but in a different pen.
>> Nice objective comparison. I guess murderers are atheists and Christians are good people.<<
No, but religious people have "remorse" for immoral deeds. To a true atheist, the word "moral" really has no meaning. He may claim it does, but he is lying - or he is really not an atheist. As I said, the main character in Natural Born Killers is how a TRUE atheist lives his life.
So there is no such thing as good or bad? Things that please God are not good? They are neutral? Things that displease God, sin, are not bad? They are neutral?
The good deeds thing you refer to basically refers to pride by the people who do good things. Good deeds won't get you into heaven.
PS, I'd love to get that chapter and verse about what Jesus said. Thanks
> Few atheists are of his ilk, fortunately.
For every Newdow making atheists go "Oy"... Jim Bakker. Benny Hinn. Jimmy Swaggert. Jerry Falwell. Pat Robertson. Johnathon Bell. Oral Roberts. Peter Popoff.
Publicity hounds are hardly restricted to one philosophy...
I just thank the God Lord that he gave us the free will to worship him or not. I also hope that those whom have chosen incorrectly.... (yes it's a joke... kinda) will come around in due time.
Perhaps, so. As the author of this piece wrote, "If a Christian really believes the things he professes to believe, he will go to great lengths to share it with others." I suppose that could include a bumper sticker.
Best to ask them. That's what I'm trying find out. Why anyone would act in any way not beneficial to themselves if there is no right and wrong is beyond me.
Maybe they do so called "good" things because it makes them feel good or makes others think well of them, which goes back to things beneficial to them.
Ain't necessarily so, an atheist may have different beliefs
about the universe that don't have any right/wrong reward/punishment scenarios....
However, the good news is that God loved this world so much that he actually gave us His Son, that if we(I, you) really believe in Him we(I, you) will have eternal life.
You can assert that religious people have 'remorse', but that does not make it so. Some do, some don't. As is the same with atheists.
Do you somehow think of atheists as unfeeling, unable to feel compassion?
Why do you claim that a atheist cannot believe in morals?
In other words, anything important. ;-)
> Incorrect. Getting CAUGHT for murder is out. Getting CAUGHT for rape is out.
Nope. Committing such acts greatly increases the risk to yourself and your potential progeny, at no gain. On a very basic level, these things do not pass the cost/benefit analysis required by the drive to reproduce. Over the last million or more years, as we evolved from a smart ape-like critter to the more or less civilized species we are now, this very basic math have been transmuted into morality. That's why there are a number of acts that are pretty much *universally* considered immoral.
> What you are saying basically means murder and rape are acceptable if ...
You convince people that God told you to do so?
Mat 19:16 And behold, one came and said to Him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He said to Him, Which? Jesus said, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 19:20 The young man said to Him, I have kept all these things from my youth up; what do I lack yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, follow Me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked Him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? None is good except One, God.
Luk 18:20 You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and your mother.
Luk 18:21 And he said, I have kept all these from my youth up.
Luk 18:22 And when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, Yet you lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, follow Me.
Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful, for he was very rich.
The rule I set for myself is that I treat atheists the same as I would treat an adherent to any other religion, which is, I would not attack their beliefs unless there is something that suggest willingness on their part to converse on the subject, in which case I will explain why I am right and they are wrong.
A car covered with bumper stickers about religion seems like an invitation to speak to the owner about religion. Unless the bumper sticker is an insult, in which case it is a case of hooliganism oddly ignored by the cops who should prevent such things.
But, atheists would say, ours is emphatically not religion. Ours is absence of religion.
Then the question arises: we know what a Christian monument is, or a Muslim one, or a Bhuddist one. What would an Atheist monument be?
What would an atheist bumper sticker be?
The answer is, an atheist monument is absence of a monument. An atheist bumper sticker is absence of a bumper sticker. Since that is not satisfying to some atheists, instead of proclaiming their atheism they need to vandalize my monuments or insult my religion. May be, after all, we should just jail them.
You'll note I never said it was.
But I will say that it should be, and if it isn't, it's fatally off-base.
Dan
Exactly, -seems to me, that the "athiest" bumper stickers are more about mocking Christianity, than espousing the beliefs of the athiest.
It has been my personal experience that; The more vociferous someone is about their status as an "athiest", -the greater the likelihood that they are primarily "anti-Christian".
This is one of those landmine topics, I guess from my POV there's nothing wrong with athiesm, but it's just crass when it takes on the "in-your-face" mocking tones. The dude in the 1983 Ford Fiesta with two dozen Athiesm stickers is looking to shock someone for sure. I just don't see Christians tooling around with bumper-stickers that say "Repent or burn in hell losers"
Other than inspection and registration, I've never put any sticker of any KIND on any car I've ever owned. For awhile, I even stopped buying Chevy products if they had that goofy Alfred E Newman / Rusty Jones sticker on 'em. ;>
Or, in fact, a Christian. Oh they might *tell* you they are, but ask another Christian of a different denomination, and they'll set you right...
That's because Denominations are man made. Christ did not say, "Lo, I am only with the Baptists, even until the end of the age." Man made things corrupt the Word of God and can give Christianity a *bad* name.
I am proud to not be a TRUE atheist by your definition then.
Your argument is that since there is no higher power to judge, there is no right and wrong for atheists. And for those that THINK there is, they are lying to themselves? Therefore, atheists cannot aspire to have honor, nor integrity, nor any other positive trait because you do not see the motivation behind it?
I am an atheist. Have been for a long, long time. Haven't killed anyone, do not steal, try not to lie, feel remorse like any human should when things go wrong, get teary-eyed when I read/hear about people sacrificing their lives to protect others, and treat every other living thing around me like I would want to be treated... and yet by your definition I'm a hardened criminal on the inside?
I submit that life is more precious to some atheists BECAUSE this is all we have. To me, there is no time for judgement, there is no making up for the wrongs we do in this life after it's over, and that makes our time here MORE valuable. But that's just me, I guess.
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