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To: Howlin; Peach; Hildy; sinkspur; Poohbah; hchutch; Neets; veronica
Well, Hello. After pointedly ignoring this circus for a few days, it seems that it's still a hothouse of irrational emotion. However, a few observations...

Political capital is not endless, and the fanatical prolifers have depleted quite a bit here, both for themselves AND for the GOP. The fact that they forced the US federal government to get involved in this will NOT be forgotten by those who will shortly be quite embarassed by this whole thing. Certainly, the state of Florida, which is vital to any presidential hopeful, will long remember what the outside activist groups wrought there, and how certain lawmakers danced on their strings.

This issue has also shown that the GOP coalition does indeed have fault lines. As many have said before, they fall directly along the line between "Fiscal/National Security Conservative" and "Religio-Social Conservative". Those in group #2 have now demonstrated that things such as State's Rights, rule of law, and reason instead of emotionalism matter not a whit when they WWAAAAANNNTTTTT something. Rest assured, Karl Rove and others are taking good notes right now, and are surely taking note of which groups threatened the President, Florida governor, and Congressional Republicans with all manner of Hell if they didn't toe this particular line. In other words, they have proclaimed that their support is quite unreliable and subject to whim. Not that Rove didn't already know this (Think 2000 election), but it's nice to have proof.

Fallout: WHen the FACTS that such dogged truth-seekers as Peach and Hildy have ferreted out become more widely known among conservatives (and they WILL now that FR apparently accepts their posting), and the elected officials and honest, caring people who've been hoodwinked get the word that they've been lied to and their efforts abused, not only will they be rightly embarassed, they will also be quite angry at those who conned them.

All of which means that the GOP is facing a reckoning within itself that MUST be acknowledged and FIXED before 2008. Hillary! is surely watching the proceedings with amusement.

842 posted on 03/20/2005 2:39:35 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Long Cut; OldFriend
All of which means that the GOP is facing a reckoning within itself that MUST be acknowledged and FIXED before 2008. Hillary! is surely watching the proceedings with amusement.

And people have the audacity to ponder Hillary's reasons for remaining so quiet on this issue. Feh!!!!!!!! Thanks LC!!

843 posted on 03/20/2005 2:44:17 PM PST by Neets
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To: Poohbah; hchutch; Hildy; Howlin

BTW, in the pool, options #2 and 4 seem to be the frontrunners so far. Betting is NOT closed yet, however.


844 posted on 03/20/2005 2:46:19 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Long Cut

From a political point of view you clearly hit the proverbial nail on the head. Great summary!

Thanks


853 posted on 03/20/2005 3:09:36 PM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Cold Heat; Melas; Modernman
Ping to #842. Interested in your opinions and position, given what all you've had to say over the past couplwe of days.

It would seem that there is war afoot within the GOP.

875 posted on 03/20/2005 3:43:56 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Long Cut
they fall directly along the line between "Fiscal/National Security Conservative" and "Religio-Social Conservative". Those in group #2 have now demonstrated that things such as State's Rights, rule of law, and reason instead of emotionalism matter not a whit when they WWAAAAANNNTTTTT something.

Well said my FRiend.

877 posted on 03/20/2005 3:49:12 PM PST by Cold Heat (A former republican , looking for a new home that is void of puritans.)
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To: Long Cut
Hi LC. Long time, old friend.

You always were the voice of reason...

Stay well. :)

883 posted on 03/20/2005 3:59:12 PM PST by veronica
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To: Long Cut
fanatical prolifers

You mean like the fellow who wrote this book?



884 posted on 03/20/2005 4:00:13 PM PST by jla
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To: Long Cut
...fall directly along the line between "Fiscal/National Security Conservative" and "Religio-Social Conservative".

Tell me, which "group" is the President Bush in? Justice Scalia? Phyllis Schlafly? Jean Kirkpatrick? G. Gordon Liddy? William F. Buckley?

885 posted on 03/20/2005 4:04:51 PM PST by jla
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To: Long Cut

Adn what will happen is that the GOP will decide to not rely on them for anything - they only go there when interest coincide, and under no other circumstance.


886 posted on 03/20/2005 4:12:45 PM PST by hchutch ("But, Rally, they're SMOKE GRENADES.")
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To: Long Cut

I fear you're right on most counts. I see this one as one big powderkeg that's just set to blow and take a lot of people with it. Politically, it's going to be ugly.


890 posted on 03/20/2005 4:21:18 PM PST by Melas
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To: Long Cut

Well said, Long Cut.
I have also stayed away from these threads. I'd just like to know how the Pubbies in office who have now made such fools of themselves are going to fix this?


918 posted on 03/20/2005 6:50:36 PM PST by meema
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To: Long Cut
Political capital is not endless, and the fanatical prolifers have depleted quite a bit here, both for themselves AND for the GOP.

"Fanatical pro-lifers." Nice ad hominem.

I'll confess I am a bit fanatical when it comes to the defense of human life. Especially the most defenseless: the old; the infirm; the unborn.

The alternative is Holland.

This issue has also shown that the GOP coalition does indeed have fault lines. As many have said before, they fall directly along the line between "Fiscal/National Security Conservative" and "Religio-Social Conservative". Those in group #2 have now demonstrated that things such as State's Rights, rule of law, and reason instead of emotionalism matter not a whit when they WWAAAAANNNTTTTT something.

This might be because "Religio-Social Conservatives" ultimately believe they answer to a higher law.

It was the law to ship Jews off to the death camps in Nazi Germany. Christians there in some cases for some strange reason felt duty bound not to observe all the legal niceties: the positive (human) law did not reflect the eternal law. Reductio ad Hitlerum, you say? Not at all. At least the Nazis didn't bother to cloak their judicial murders with the facade of compassion.

But then in any case no one is breaking the law here. Fanatical pro-life squads haven't kidnapped Terri or killed any judges. So far, legally, Michael Schiavo has gotten his way, in spite of the opposition of the governor, the DCF, and the legislature.

I would rather that Congress had not needed to get involved. I have as much concern for federalism as anyone. But I do admit that when a life is at stake and legal means are at hand, I can live with it. At least until a different judge than Greer is put in charge of the case.

And I'm not ready to write her life off when no one really knows just how much function Terri Schiavo has. Because the tests needed to make that evaluation simply have not ben a done. A CT scan or EEG doesn't cut it.

939 posted on 03/21/2005 5:16:56 AM PST by The Iguana
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