Posted on 03/28/2005 11:20:36 AM PST by fight_truth_decay
Then good-bye.
We lost an opportunity to get the nuclear option.
Bush himself has said in effect that Political Capital is created when it is expended.
OK, this wasn't "expended." It was squandered.
Good riddance.
Here's a FR thread that I bookmarked for interest a couple weeks ago and forgot all about it until you asked about Felos - Scientology, The Clearwater Bar Association and Judge Greer. I haven't read it yet, but I believe I will now.
Why do you ask anyway? Have you found that scientology has come up in other similar situations? Or do you ask just because it's FL - I know the Lisa McPhearson case was in Clearwater also.
Well -- I don't agree with the decision -- though I never sat with all the facts before me as did the judge. (Remember, one reason we don't over-turn findings of facts by judges or juries very easily, is a recognition within the system that only the finder of fact can judge the credibility of the witnesses having had the opportunity to see them in Court and to have them subject to cross examination. That is why jury and factual findings by a judge sitting as fact finder are accorded such weight -- and rightfully so). Having said all that -- the determination in this case was NOT what did Michael want.
Indeed, the determination was what did Terri Schiavo want. In making that finding, the Court certainly did rely on the witness statement of Michael -- but it is important to understand the posture of the case. In this case, the Court has determined that Terri Schiavo did not want to be kept alive. So, in that sense, the Court has made a finding of fact on what it believes to be her wishes, and denying those wishes would be to deny Ms. Schiavo her right. In the end -- the Court applied Florida law, letting the husband serve as the guardian. It then made a factual determination that Terri wanted to die -- and in doing so is now upholding Terri's desire. (All the other Courts merely held that the judge did not abuse his discretion. Which, in essence, means that even if they don't agree with him, the facts were such that as a reasonable fact-finder he could have reached his conclusion based on the facts.)
The Schiavo family needed expert appellate advocates, and they desperately needed someone who understood the import of the Congressional legislation. They did not have that. In essence, Congress passed a law to help her -- and the Schindler attorney went to the Middle District and asked for something other than what the statute provided. The Court, of course, found that the cause of action was weak, and did not warrant the injunctive relief requested. It was a major blunder.
Just remember -- in the end, the only entity that could have saved her without a successful appeal, was the Florida legislature. They had a bill pending to that would have made it against Florida law to end the life of any person without an express written medical directive. In addition, the legislation could have been applied to the Schiavo case. The legislature voted it down. (Florida Senate 21-18). Several republicans voted against it, and when it died they went home for Easter to let Terri die. They are the parties who really stopped this thing.
So far as I can tell -- the Trial Judge made his decision on the only facts before him at the time. He rigorously applied Florida law -- even when we did not want him to. Then, the Federal Courts declined to overturn his finding, as they properly found no abuse of discretion and no properly plead Federal cause of action. The Court system worked perfectly. It was the system of laws enacted by the legislature that failed. The Congress should have mandated a de novo review, and applied the right to all cases like this in each state. That broad law would have been Constitutional, and it would have eliminated discretion. They were too chicken to do so. And, of course, the Florida legislature failed miserably at their task.
"If GOD ALMIGHTY had been lawyer or witness for the Schindlers, He would have lost."
Yes and No. Yes, He would have been overuled by Greer and No, because He would then overule Greer, strike him dead, and free Terri and thats that.
Terri's parents are virtually broke.
Their counsel is with Christian Law Association.
What this article is saying may be true, but if you read all the corruption and illegalities authorized by Judge Greer and detailed in articles at www.theempirejournal.com I don't think it would have mattered what court they are in.
Also read 10 dirty guardianship tricks....it's easily found via google.
I know a little about Scientology's views on eugenics and euthanasia. And, I did know that Scientology is a major presence in Clearwater, Florida. So, I just was speculating about whether Felos had represented the "Church" of Scientology or was a member. I think I will nose around...
Some of these scions on the Religous Right scare me just as much as Hillary Rodham Clinton does, to be honest. There are some of those folks who DO NOT consider Catholics or Mormons to be Christians. Some of these "culture warriors" strike me as control freaks.
I didn't sign on to the conservaitve movement to exchange left-wing control freaks for right-wing control freaks.
Several Freepers with legal backgrounds have been saying this all along.
Not so fast - I work with 1st Year law students, and they are very capable of handing in 1/2-baked and top-to-bottom crappy work,
That being said, you are right that the Schindler lawyers royally stunk. Indeed, as you point out, having Randall Terry and Larry Klayman involved is even more evidence of rotten judgement on the part of the Shdindlers.
How do you explain the Freepers with a legal background (like me) who have been saying this for a while - certainly before this weekend?
It is the truth and not spin - the first trip to Federal Court was a bad joke. It isn't new spin that sprung this weekend - anyone paying attention would know that.
How do you explain the Freepers with a legal background (like me) who have been saying this for a while - certainly before this weekend?
It is the truth and not spin - the first trip to Federal Court was a bad joke. It isn't new spin that sprung this weekend - anyone paying attention would know that.
This article makes good points.
One of the disturbing things to me is that the Schindlers have had lousy lawyering from the start. They were manipulated and mislead by groups with political agendas of their own.
They should have retained a top flight Constitutional lawyer like Alan Dershowitz or Davis Boise who have expressed great sympathy and understanding of Terri's plight, instead of a using inexperienced political idealogues .
Tragic.
Depends - too many people have too much emotionally invested in winning this one. They need to develop clarity of mind. With clarity they can see and recognize what happened here.
If they embrace a victim mentality (who would have thunk it, right here on FR?) they will just embrace the idea of losing, but securing the moral highground. Then it becomes about them, and not about making change.
And then they are marginalized.
It shouldn't have mattered. Congress, with the passage of "Terri's Law" gave the Schindlers a remarkable" and in some ways, unprecedented--opportunity".
Congress gave the Schindler's the power to start over:
" Congress empowered them to litigate anew any issues relating to their daughter's condition. Violations of Terri's rights were to be determined without regard to any prior rulings by the state courts: de novo in lawyer's jargon."
For some unknown reason, the Schindler's legal team failed to evoke this right. My heart sank with each appeal filing, and just broke in two with the brief they filed before the US Supreme Court.
This is a another tragedy.
LOL!!! Sounds like you have your hands full!
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