How the Schiavo Federal Court Case Might Have Been Won(Long article worth the read)

FindLaw's Writ ^ | Saturday, Mar. 26, 2005 | By MICHAEL C. DORF

[HitmanLV]

I work with students from the best law schools all the way down to the lowest ranked ones - needless to say, they are all among 'America's Best & Brightest.'

I know this because they tell me so... '-)

[fight_truth_decay]

Alan Dershowitz or Davis Boise

Is it too late to call in these "top flight" Constitutional lawyers or one from the "A Team"?

[virgil]

Next, we'll hear that FR was never actually a conservative website.

[PhiKapMom]

A whole group of you Freeper Lawyers were appalled at the pleading made by the Schindler Lawyers to Federal District Court last week. In fact, Torie was even on the radio complaining before I knew it was Torie. He was great and very articulate on what should be included.

I decided to read Court documents for myself on Friday evening and with no law degree, the document that went to the District Judge by Schindler's lawyers was appalling. I haven't come down off the ceiling when Terri's life was at stake, the lawyers asked for damages for the Schindlers and their legal fees be paid. Then I read the scumbag Felos' document he submitted -- all kinds of case law cited. Did notice if you go way back with Felos that the court documents he prepared earlier are not near as slick as they are today with the ACLU on his side.

[PhiKapMom]

Know some law students here at OU through my son -- confidence they do not lack. :)

[fight_truth_decay]

Greer falls into that search:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1361797/posts

Scientology attorney Wally Pope—who represented his "church" in the Lisa McPherson case—was the individual selected to bestow this high honor on Judge Greer! Wally cited high ideals, personal character, and judicial competence:

"Yet, in the teeth of all that, he has steadfastly demonstrated exactly what the John U. Bird award was created to honor: high ideals, personal character, judicial competence and service," lawyer Wally Pope said before bestowing the honor.

[fight_truth_decay]

Judge Greer received a campaign gift from the law firm of Michael Schiavo’s attorney...only one day after "Terri’s Law” was declared unconstitutional by a Pinellas county court....Of course, no direct evidence suggests collusion between the two parties, but the timing of the campaign contribution is highly suspect.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1371060/posts

[HitmanLV]

Yes, confidence is not a problem, but that's not to say there aren't problems!

One thing I say about many of the young adults in our best colleges and universities, as well as our law schools (of course, our Best & Brightest) is that they have a strange combination of exagerated self esteem, misplaced self confidence, and almost no genuine self assurance.

This is compounded by the fact that most of them 'don't know what they don't know.' That is, they will be cavalier and confrontational about matters of constitutional rights, for example, and yet show an almost profound ignorance of history, relevant historical documents (like the Federalist Papers), and in many cases even the text itself. This doesn't stop them from having a very loud and strong opinion.

What they lack in actual knowledge, they are very quick & willing to replace with things that they think they know but in fact, don't know. In fact, they seem to think that things they make up (sloppily) should have equal (or more) impact and weight than more established things.

The saddest part about this is, of course, that I think I can remember a time when I resembled those remarks. ;-)

[fight_truth_decay]

St. Petersburg Times, published May 25, 2001

http://www.sptimes.com/News/052501/Floridian/The_spirit_and_the_la.shtml

Every morning these days, Felos(twice married/divorced) is 160 pounds of elastic on his bedroom floor. He does yoga, inspired by a framed portrait of Paramahansa Yogananda, the founder of spiritual realization. He does more stretches and takes out a machine that helps with his chi, or body energy.

The purpose of the morning routine is to be "present in the sensation of his body."

He takes out a throw pillow and meditates for a half hour before showering and drinking a concoction of protein powder, banana, orange juice, yogurt and goat's milk.

Each morning he checks to see if something has grown on the mango tree and bamboo he planted in the front yard.

Felos visits different places of worship about twice a month, he says. He has spoken at several, including the Palm Harbor Unity Church, the Center for Conscious Living and a spiritual awareness center in Crystal Beach.

[rdcorso]

I don't think this case would have turned out even close to what it has if it wasn't for the persistence of judge Greer.He stood up and called the bluff of the president, the US congress and the governor of Florida.There is no way anyone could convince me that a state probate judge from some small county in Florida wields more authority than the president of the United States,the US Congress and The Florida governor.

[PhiKapMom]

My son is a Graduate Assistant in the English Deparment at OU and teaches Comp I and II. He gave a "C" on one of the papers and the student came in his office furious because he had been in English Honors in High School and no teacher had given him a "C" before on a paper. He demanded to meet with the professor that is the mentor to several of the grad students. My son took the student and his paper to the professor who reviewed the paper, looked at the student, and told him he thinks my son could have given him a "D" and still been right. He then proceeded to tell the student that the corrections my son had made were proper.

The professor gave the student a book on English Grammar and told him to read the Rules, print out his paper again, make the corrections, and then tell my son that he was still wrong. The student came in and apologized the next day to my son and told him that none of his English Honors teacher's in High School had bothered to correct his work, just gave him an "A." He also asked him to please print out the English Grammar tips my son had handed out the first day of class he didn't think he needed and trashed.

Been interesting to hear my son talk compared to when he was a student -- totally different perspective and he tells me if he ever forgets what he was like as a student to remind him.

[Pelham]

and now many of these conservatives are turning on the religious pro-life conservatives, some telling us the GOP would be better off without us.

They have been doing this for years. The current controversy has just brought it to your attention. The same crowd always finds some group to their right that they want to toss out of their Big Tent. And Hugh Hewitt is one who has acted this way in the past.

[Pelham]

He appears to be the ruler of the world.

[HitmanLV]

You raised a fine son there - God bless! :-)

[Semper911]

Innocent people dying in war. I'm not talking about soldiers

I understand your point, hildy, but it is just different. Knowledge of the retaliation after an attack serves to deter the attack in the first place. Example, if N. Korea launches a nuke at us, their country will cease to exist. Period, and of story. It's just the way it works, and every potential aggressor knows it.

This is just so different. The judge ordered her death because she was inconvenient, not because her countrymen launched an attack.

We could go back and forth on this, but I have followed your position on this and other threads, and we just disagree. You have made a good case for your side, though.

FReegards...

[queenkathy]

bump

[PJBlogger]

"Alan Dershowitz or Davis Boise
Is it too late to call in these "top flight" Constitutional lawyers or one from the "A Team"?"

Unfortunately, I believe the options in the Courts have run their course, and due to incompetent counsel, they were waged on the wrong issues and were lost before they even got off the ground.

IMO the special interest groups with their own agenda
(even though I might agree with parts of that agenda) have hijacked Terri's interest and given her representation by an idealogue instead of a top Constitutional lawyer and that doomed Terri.

I also believe that these idealogues would have never ceded the spotlight to Dershowitz, Boise, or Ted Olson, even though they are the only kind of lawyers who would have had a ghost of a chance to save Terri.

[Ronzo]

So far as I can tell -- the Trial Judge made his decision on the only facts before him at the time. He rigorously applied Florida law -- even when we did not want him to. Then, the Federal Courts declined to overturn his finding, as they properly found no abuse of discretion and no properly plead Federal cause of action. The Court system worked perfectly. It was the system of laws enacted by the legislature that failed. The Congress should have mandated a de novo review, and applied the right to all cases like this in each state. That broad law would have been Constitutional, and it would have eliminated discretion. They were too chicken to do so. And, of course, the Florida legislature failed miserably at their task.

This is where things get tricky. Obviously, Michael was Terri's guardian according to Florida law. However, we are getting into a bizarre realm when a judge ORDERS the death of a human being, based on LITERALLY nothing more than the guardian's recollections! In this case, the type of fact finding and proof normally associated with a civil court makes for a very, very poor decision.

I understand that technically speaking, the judge is only backing what Michael wanted done, enforcing the rights of the guardian. (In almost any other instance, this is exactly what a judge should be doing!) However, when the guardian is seeking to end the life of the person whom he is entrusted, and there is a serious and vigorous disagreement from other interested parties, then we have a situation where he is obligated, at least ethically speaking, to be a bit hesitant!

Is it what Terri wanted? It is extremely obvious that there's no way in hell anybody could possible know what she wanted, given the state she's in and the lack of any written will regarding the matter. Why didn't Greer just say NO! I don't think--even given the lower bar of proof in civil litigation--that there could be even reasonable assurance that Terri wanted to die. It seemed quite obvious (at least from what I've read here on FR) that Michael had some ulterior motives for wanting to end Terri's life.

But more disturbingly, can any judge, anywhere in this nation, even given the current laws on the books, in good conscious order someone's starvation? Whether or not they are coherent is immaterial, as this is a human being we're talking about.

Even if someone had written a will stating they would like to die of starvation (or whatever flowery jargon would appear in such a will...) if they ever were diagnosed with a hangnail, does that mean that a judge must enforce that person's request for a cruel and unusual death? Does any judge have that power?

Couldn't any of the appellate courts, seeing that this was a case to ultimately determine the end of a human life, realize that a standard a little bit more strict and vigorous is required than that normally used in civil cases? Even if the Schindler's lawyer's didn't do such a bang-up job, isn't it obvious to the appellate court judges that there is a problem, and that further review is necessary? But then again I did not read the briefs filed by the Schindler's lawyers, so perhaps they were bigger idiots than I realize.

But I do think it's a mistake to start writing laws and passing legislation based on this case alone. If Greer made a bad decision, which he obviously did, then one only needs a competent team of lawyers to point out the judge's error and get an appeal. I think the real issue here is the incompetence of the Schindler's attorneys, and the great skills of Micheal Schiavo's counsel.

[Ronzo]

"This is compounded by the fact that most of them 'don't know what they don't know.' That is, they will be cavalier and confrontational about matters of constitutional rights, for example, and yet show an almost profound ignorance of history, relevant historical documents (like the Federalist Papers), and in many cases even the text itself. This doesn't stop them from having a very loud and strong opinion."

There is a movie called "The Human Stain" (which I don't recommend) in which the punch-line is this:

"People are just getting dumber, but more opinionated."

[Dead Dog]

They didn't fail to evoke this "right", according to Robert Bork (He was on Fox over the weekend). Judge Whittmore choose to ignore the intent of Congress on his own discretion.

I'm curious as of how Congress passing this law fits with their power to set Jurisdiction in of the Courts. IMO, they were within their power, but I haven't heard this debated.