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U.S. Gay Catholics Say 'No Sex' Doctrine Tough to Follow
Reuters ^ | April 7, 2005 | Adam Tanner

Posted on 04/07/2005 6:20:40 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Peter Novak has practiced Catholicism his whole life, starting as an altar boy and then studying for seven years toward becoming a priest.

Yet in recent months, the 39-year-old gay man, who did not complete his seminary studies, has been thinking about leaving the church because of the legacy of Pope John Paul's stance on homosexuality.

"It's not an easy life to do that, to want to maintain your identity as Catholic and gay," said Novak, who married his partner in San Francisco last year.

"The church came out very much opposed to gay marriage and I would say that was part of it," he said, explaining why he stopped going to Mass regularly more than a year ago. "It has challenged my ability to feel comfortable in the church."

Under Pope John Paul, the Vatican preached that gays should be treated with compassion but made clear it absolutely opposed gay sex and called homosexuality a disorder. The Pope referred to gay marriage as an "ideology of evil."

The Pope "would be very compassionate to the gay person," said Fr. Donald Cozzens, former president-rector of Saint Mary Catholic Seminary in Cleveland. Yet he would "require of them what he feels the Gospel requires of all of God's people, which is if you are not married, you do not have an active sexual life, whether within a committed relationship or not."

Many gay American Catholics ignore such teachings, as do heterosexuals who skirt church rules against birth control.

In areas such as San Francisco's Castro Street, a center of gay life, Catholic churches perform a delicate balancing act.

In front of the Most Holy Redeemer Church two blocks away, a billboard shows well-built male models urging gay men to telephone.

"We provide the teachings of the church with the understanding that people will make their own choices," said Michael Greenwell, a priest from the Carmelite Order.

GAY CATHOLICS AT PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH

DignityUSA, a group of gay Catholics, conducts its own services, often with former priests. After a 1986 Vatican letter denounced homosexuality as "an objective disorder," U.S. Catholic churches barred group meetings on their property.

So in San Francisco, Dignity meets weekly at a Presbyterian church.

Catholic teachings on homosexuality may not have changed much under John Paul, but his papacy coincided with the gay rights movements, AIDS and priest sex scandals highlighting issues related to homosexual clergymen.

The Pope also strongly opposed gay marriage, discussing it in his last annual address in January and calling it in his last book published in February "a new ideology of evil," which incensed many gays.

"The clock has been turned back during this papacy for gay people," said Jeff Stone, a DignityUSA member in New York.

In San Francisco, Catholics played key roles during last year's marriage of more than 4,000 same sex couples.

Mayor Gavin Newsom, a Catholic, ignited the issue by allowing the weddings until they were barred by the California Supreme Court. Then, just last month, a Catholic judge ruled California's ban on homosexual marriage unconstitutional.

Both traditionalists and reformers seem to agree the Vatican is unlikely to make changes toward gays under the next Pope.

"I don't think the teaching can or will change," said Mark Brumley, president of St. Ignatius Press, the largest U.S. Catholic publisher.

"Thanks to the legacy of John Paul II, we are going to see a much more energetic and persuasive presentation of the truth of that teaching about human sexuality," he said. "I think the next Pope will build on what John Paul II has done."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; homosexualagenda; johnpaulii; sin
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Thank you - I knew female homosexuality was addressed, but couldn't remember where. I thought it was also alluded to in the OT, but I'll have to research.

God Bless

41 posted on 04/07/2005 6:49:43 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: Petronski

NO, that would be wrong as well. the rule to be a Catholic priest is you have to be selebet. NO SEX of any kind.

That rule is being broken in a few instances, there are a couple married Catholic priests in the USA, One in Ireland, and now, one in Canada. There may be a few others in Europe as well.


42 posted on 04/07/2005 6:49:51 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: BobCNY

Bob,
Well put. Amazing how many churchgoers are not willing to submit their lifestyle to the teachings of the church. Clintonian departmentalization at its best. They submit their religious gene but not their sex gene.
"I take my spirit to church every Sunday but I will not allow my religion to interfere with my politics." or, "The church has no business interfering with my work as Senator." - guess who


43 posted on 04/07/2005 6:50:10 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (They are lost in sin.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Peter Novak has practiced Catholicism his whole life . . .

Ummm, no he hasn't.

Figures Reuters would get the very first words of the article absolutely wrong.

44 posted on 04/07/2005 6:51:01 AM PDT by Bush2004
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Those zany U.S. Catholics!

Gotta love those headline writers. What about the German, Italian, Spanish, Japanese, Brazilian, Portugese, Cuban, South African, Russian, Senegalese, and other (fill in the national blank) Catholics? They don't have a problem with it? Or is this another shot at creating a schism via the dinosaur press? It's like some are crying out in pain - just begging to please be finished with restraint and any semblance of Bible thought or teachings - at least in the US.
45 posted on 04/07/2005 6:51:06 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: thoughtomator
The Bible doesn't address female homosexuality.
46 posted on 04/07/2005 6:52:30 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Number of Popes who were against gay marriage 628
Number of Popes who supported gay marriage 0.

Yep, it's all Pope John Paul's fault for driving the gays from the Church.....

47 posted on 04/07/2005 6:52:35 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1; anniegetyourgun

Ah, you guys are using the newfangled version. I never took to that one.


48 posted on 04/07/2005 6:53:54 AM PDT by thoughtomator ("The Passion of the Opus" - 2 hours of a FReeper being crucified on his own self-pitying thread)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

-"The church came out very much opposed to gay marriage and I would say that was part of it," he said, explaining why he stopped going to Mass regularly more than a year ago. "It has challenged my ability to feel comfortable in the church."-

It's not up to the church to make you feel comfortable; it's up to you to live up to your religion. Cripes!


49 posted on 04/07/2005 6:54:17 AM PDT by AmericanChef
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To: Nathan Zachary

The rule about promising or vowing celibacy is irrelevant, the guy left the seminary. My statement is accurate.


50 posted on 04/07/2005 6:55:16 AM PDT by Petronski (I thank God Almighty for a most remarkable blessing: John Paul the Great.)
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To: AD from SpringBay
The Bible doesn't address female homosexuality.

It doesn't address embryonic stem-cell research, euthanasia, or even the nature of the Trinity for that matter. Is that problematic?
51 posted on 04/07/2005 6:55:38 AM PDT by mike182d ("Let fly the white flag of war." - Zapp Brannigan)
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To: jwalburg
Exactly!

Simply insert your favorite paraphilic disorder and it all works the same.

There's no difference.

52 posted on 04/07/2005 6:56:42 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (WARNING: EXPOSURE TO THE SON MAY PREVENT BURNING.)
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To: Let's Roll

I believe the Catholic Church does not condemn being gay as sinful -- it is acting upon one's homosexual tendencies by engaging in sexual relations that is considered sinful.

I've come across a few men in my time that I thought had to be gay, but they never had partners. They were fine in my eyes as well as in good standing with their churches.


53 posted on 04/07/2005 6:57:07 AM PDT by Bush2004
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To: Clint N. Suhks
If Catholics with same-sex attraction want to take their faith seriously, they need to join Courage.
54 posted on 04/07/2005 6:57:43 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - Tolkien)
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To: mike182d

That was the implication (I was trying to be subtle). To be extreme, the Bible doesn't address heroin or crystal meth either. It's problematic when folks have a thoughtless approach to understanding the book of faith.


55 posted on 04/07/2005 6:58:48 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: Pondman88
but if one were predisposed to being gay, and you had this career/vocation which allows you not to marry and be in concert with other men........

A lot of these men are trying to "fix" themselves by entering the priesthood. It's common in seminaries of all denominations.

As far as other postings about Christianity being incompatible with homosexuality, I'd have to say that's not true. It's incompatible with unrepentant homosexuality. We are all sinners, even though some sins are not as public or as ensnaring as sexual sins.

Thankfully, God takes us right where we are. He doesn't expect us to be all cleaned up. As fallen, sinful human beings, we are incapable of "cleaning ourselves up." Sure, we can make ourselves "behave" externally, but our hearts can remain deeply disobedient to God. The only solution is to repent of our sin, submit ourselves to God's authority and will, and ask Him to work in and through us.

As a side note, I have a good friend who was a homosexual, became a Christian, and even got married. He's an awesome man of God, but he still has to make an effort to avoid temptation, and rely on God's grace to sustain him.
57 posted on 04/07/2005 7:00:24 AM PDT by halieus (God cannot give us a happiness and peace apart from Himself, because it is not there.)
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To: stan_sipple
Paul seems to be saying that their punishment for moral depravity is their queer lifestyle

Don't rely on the quote alone, you ought to expect and look for some contextual exegesis. Romans 1:26-27 is in the middle of a passage discussing the activities of those who have fallen away from God. Paul talks explicitly about homosexuality as an example of those who might know God, but instead have rejected God and given themselves over to their own lusts. It's not a punishment, but an inevitable result of "I God".

58 posted on 04/07/2005 7:01:19 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: dfwgator

Not being catholic will not change God's Law.


59 posted on 04/07/2005 7:01:50 AM PDT by usslsm51
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To: trebb

Female homosexuality is, in Deuteronomy.


60 posted on 04/07/2005 7:02:22 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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