Fixing immigration fairly

The Boston Globe ^ | April 12, 2005 | Ali Noorani

[Boston Blackie]

Invoking symbols ranging from the Revolutionary War to Martin Luther King Jr., armed vigilantes are patrolling a segment of the Arizona-Mexico border and taking the enforcement of immigration law into their own hands. While they claim only to offer support to the Border Patrol, the Mexican government is on edge, human rights activists have flooded the area, and President Bush has distanced himself from the effort.

[judgeandjury]

Given the option between mass deportations and enrolling the illegals, the vast majority will choose the guest worker program.

Got any proof to back up this statement or is this just your opinion? And please, don't reference any FR polls because you've already said that these polls are basically insignificant and meaningless.

[Ben Ficklin]

If you prefer no immigration reform to an immigration reform bill that you see as undesirable, that would make you a FROBL.

[risk]

Perhaps, but I don't know any.

There are a lot of people who claim that totally free trade and unlimited immigration is good for America, and they do this on the basis of conservative economics. Some of these people happen to be conservative on issues like gun control and abortion, as well. The charge that they don't really care about American life is very sticky.

I don't think they really love American families. I believe in fair competition, but not with slave labor, government-subsidized factories, and workers trained in free universities and desperate for the chance to work at any rate.

We can compete if we take care of our own people. If we fail that, we'll compete with no one soon.

[spodefly]

Some (but not all) of those immigration critics who base their argument on "illegal" don't want to admit it. But they are really anti-Hispanic.

Maybe they are not anti-Hispanic, per se.

Maybe they are just anti wave-after-wave-after-wave of Hispanics whose first inclination is to ignore the laws of this country.

Maybe they hear the rhetoric of the Reconquista Klan, and they see Hispanic politicians talking about "the last gasp of white America" and the hear other Hispanic politicians standing by their 'El Plan de Aztlan' and their comments about the "brutal gringo invasion", and they know that if any white politician had utter anything similar they would have been hounded perpetually (and rightfully) as a racist, but the Hispanic politicians get a pass.

Maybe they recognize "Brown Supremacists" as being as dangerous as any skinhead, and they see the millions of illegals as, if not a direct part of that plan of Reconquista, certainly as an enabler of it.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "What Bush and other immigration sympathizers propose is by definition not amnesty. It is a change in the law that would make, be definition, illegals legal."

What about the bogus and stolen documents used by them when they were ILLEGAL? Shouldn't citizens' felony document fraud also be dismissed? The 14th Amendment equal protection thingy.

I note that you've reached for the "race" card in another part of your reply. Why is being against ILLEGAL immigration "racist?" There are many Irish ILLEGAL immigrants as exposed by New York state's crack down on drivers licenses. Many went home. Their government attempted to intervene to save the licenses of those ILLEGALs who remain. We take umbrage at that also.

Perhaps the Mexican clearners v. Indian professionals is just a matter of "caste."

[risk]

I'm pro-English. English is our language. It's our culture. You can put as much hotsauce on your fajitas as you like, but if you talk about changing our language to Spanish, or replacing English, or dividing our attention with Spanish language in our schools, I've got a problem with that. Keep your Hispanic culture if you like - that's fine with me. It's already gone way too far here in California. From the radio and TV waves to the hallways of our schools and the halls government, it's now "press #1 for English." I call it Hispania.

English: learn it, love it, or salga de los Estados Unidos de América. (Leave the USA.)

[raybbr]

The mexican birth rate is falling.

Not here.

But Hispanic teens -- especially Mexicans and Puerto Ricans -- are maintaining relatively high pregnancy and birthrates, said Child Trends researcher Suzanne Ryan, co-author of a recent paper on Hispanic teens

[Czar]

Atta boy!

[hosepipe]

[ Thank you minutemen! ]

Yes! I thank the Minutemen too....
You can bet your pencil thin mustache.. on that too..
the Boston Blackie kind..

[Ben Ficklin]

Yes, I've seen that and it looks accurate to me.

I was actually talking a couple of different things. 35,40, 50 years ago, mexican women had 18-20 babies. Today they have 7. Now 7 is relatively high compared to the US, but that rate will continue to fall.

Mexicans that enter the US still have relatively large families. Their kids have fewer and the second generation bithrate is comparable to the average US birthrate. This is true of all immigrants that come from nations with relatively high birthrates.

[shattered]

One day you will wake up and will be living in an area that is full of illegals overcrowding your schools, not paying income taxes, and receiving government benefits.

Your kids will not be getting a quality education because most of the school is focused on bilingual education and your district has made it clear that bilingual will be the main focus of the district.

When you drive to the store you see businesses flying the Mexican flag out front, or alternating US and Mexican flags.

When your kids want to get summer jobs but have a hard time getting hired since they do not speak Spanish OR there are no jobs available since they are filled with illegals.

I could go on but you can't really get it from a post, you will have to experience it. And you will, it is only a matter of time.

[Marine Inspector]

What Bush and other immigration sympathizers propose is by definition not amnesty. It is a change in the law that would make, be definition, illegals legal.

Actually no.

You might what to actually learn some immigration law and then take a close look at Bush's proposal. Its amnesty, it's not changing the law.

[WRhine]

On the far right would be repatriation then re-entry ala Tancredo.

Slightly right of center would be the Bush Plan or Cornyn's bill. Also the the bill introduced by McCain and the Arizona delegation.

Left of center would be the compromise bills. These would include AgJobs, Daschle-Hagel, and the new bill by Kennedy and McCain that no one has seen.

You seem to love spinning facts and truths into a mish mash of half-truths and outright lies. When confronted with the truth you jump to another line of propaganda.

Let's clear the air shall we? With the possible exception of Tancredo's plan, all the guest worker programs mentioned are Sham Amnesties for Illegal Aliens.

There is no "right of center" in the Bush, McCain and Cornyn's Shamnesties. Right of center in American politics is NO Amnesties, NO Amnesties disguised as Guest Worker plans. And Bush's Amnesty is probably the worst of the lot given that the sky is the limit as to how many Illegals could be covered.

These plans have the same common elements and effects. They reward Illegal Aliens for breaking our laws, carry legalization clauses, allow chain immigration and only aggravate the illegal immigration crisis.

So your support of guest worker amnesties makes perfect sense.

[WRhine]

Perhaps the long-term play of open borders is a combined US/Mexico with a population over 400m to stand as a bulwark against failing Europe and provide the last defense of Western Civ.

It wouldn't have anything to do with the money associated with illegal labor, the government’s eternal desire for a new compliant underclass, unions that see the dollars of more membership, money associated with the open border trafficking in drugs, illegals, fill in the blank, Mexico's corrupt elite relieving themselves of their pesky demanding peasants, businesses profiting by having more warm bodies in the country, real estate firms that cash in on the population explosion and urban flight, banks that umm just cash in.

Nah. Too Obvious.

You give our government and the powers behind it WAY too much credit in being able to take their eyes off the dollar signs long enough to be concerned about world changing developments. Much less cobble together some twisted master plan for the future clash of civilizations. They can hardly keep up with the money flowing into their coffers to care much about anything other than money and power in the here and now.

[WRhine]

I think "conservative" and "liberal" are labels that aren't always very helpful when it really matters. There's common sense and a love for freedom. There's a love for American families.

Excellent insight. Political labels, especially party labels are not very good guide posts when it concerns addressing the truly critical matters that confront this country.

There are allies and enemies in each political camp. What's needed is a new consensus forged by grassroot populism that creates bi-partisian and 3rd party support to force the PTB to take on the issue(s) or lose their seat in power. It worked for Teddy R.

[WRhine]

If you prefer no immigration reform to an immigration reform bill that you see as undesirable, that would make you a FROBL

LOL. Immigration "reform" being the latest in Beltway Speak for Amnesties for Illegals, open borders and even higher rates of illegal immigration. Remember the "Campaign Finance Reform" bill? It is anything BUT reform. Want to sell something that the American People don’t want? Slap the “Reform” label on in.

You can put whatever lipstick you want on the Amnesty Pig. It's still Amnesty and it’s still a Pig.

[WRhine]

I've come to the conclusion that there is almost nothing left that _can_ be done to save ourselves from the Immigration Bomb. Time is running out. We are fast approaching the point of "is that all there is?", and, as it will follow, the reality of "if that's all"...

Very well written essay Fishrrman. I'm a Fisherman too btw.

All I can say is I hope you are wrong. The warning signs are all there though.

I leaves me wondering just how many young Americans in the future would be willing to put their life on the line in the defense of a non-sovereign, borderless country (trading region actually) that stands for nothing but a short term buck and where citizenship is a meaningless concept.

[FBD]

>"But before you go renaming FR, you may wanna bring the issue up with Jim. He is after all the owner."<


- Speaking of renaming things:
That poster you are all addressing here, is great at renaming things. Even to the point of renaming article titles in links.

Take a look at this link he posted to me, which he titled:

"Entitlement programs financed by hispanics for the benefit of whites"

Now...click on the link, and see what the title actually is.
BTW, the article is from a left-wing socialist site, with its offices at the U.N headquarters:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1313658/replies?c=66

.Bookmark it. show others.
Regards.

[FBD]

bump to your post. please bookmark the CBG quotes I pinged you to as well, thanks!

regards

[Boot Hill]

"please bookmark the CBG quotes"

If you like CBG quotes, wait till you see this...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1382557/posts?page=92#92

--Boot Hill