Catholic Women’s Ordination Conference Lays Out the Case for Women Priests

WOC ^ | 4/12/05 | Women's Ordination Conference

[rollo tomasi]

There are biblical and theological reasons to keep women from the priesthood, what narcotic is this Barnes person on.

Contrary to what the "liberal and enlightened Christian mind" thinks, Paul’s writings are not second-class material. Jesus sent Paul to bear witness to Christ Himself. Christ gave Paul and the other apostles the authority to speak and teach for Him.

This big lie of self-promotion and liberation that claims are the key to happiness and fulfillment keeps rearing it's ugly head day in and day out. Loving God and attempting to live in obedience (Everyone has transgressions) is the key.

[Aquinasfan]

I have read there is some mystery as to whether there was in fact a female Pope

No mystery. No Pope Joan.

[Aquinasfan]

It's an odd position that says that Charlie Manson would be a more acceptable candidate for the priesthood than Mother Theresa might have been.

He's also a more likely candidate to become a male saint than Mother Theresa.

The priest represents Christ, who is male in his human nature.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Didn't anybody read the Pope's explanation for not ordaining women? Quite explicitly he said, "I don't have the authority."

This is not an assertion of papal power. It's an assertion of papal subordination to Christ.

And it has nothing to do with any supposed "inferiority" of women. Think: if the Blessed Virgin mary had appeared to John Paul II, which of them would have fallen on their knees?

Sacraments are "outward signs instituted by Christ to give grace." Thus the outward signs, being instituted by Christ, can't be changed.

Here's the really interesting part: in two of the sacraments --- Matrimony and Holy Orders ---- the human body itself is the outward sign. That is, in Matrimony, the female body and the male body have sacramental significance.

In Holy Orders (priesthood) the male body is itself a sign. A sign of what? Modern ears are almost tone-deaf to the natural significance of gender, but here we go: maleness means PROTECTION, PROVISION, and SELF-SACRIFICE: being there to lay down your life for your flock, your people, your family.

It is an enduring sign-post in a de-sexed and de-sacramentalized world for what the male role is ~supposed~ to be.

I thank God for a Church that acts as if that bodily sex is significant and holy; that insists that masculinity and femininity mean something ("male and female he created them") and that matter matters.

[muir_redwoods]

It is also odd that people would necessarily concentrate on the sexuality of a Deity that can manage creation ex nihilo and, hence, has no need of a sexuality. The sex of such a Deity may be an irrational concept

[longtermmemmory]

$25 dollars and a phone number and suddenly everyone is a conference or non-profit corp.

These nobody groups are now being reported as serious contenders in the public debate. They have all the credibility of the flat earth society, or the UFO killed JFK conspirists.

[A. Pole]

Married priests ain't gonna happen either.

This is very different. Roman Catholic Church was ordaining married men into priesthood until XII century (letting already ordained to look for women is another thing). General celibacy is disciplinary and not doctrinal.

[Jim Noble]

Some Episcopalians take the Anglo-Catholic viewpoint, I always did, that's why I'm Catholic today. Others are more Protestant and don't believe in the Real Presence. I guess for them, it's no problem. But what we're talking about here is Catholic priests - who DO believe in the Real Presence.

I'm just a devil's advocate here-don't really have a strong position. The answer to my "women at the tomb" question was good.

BUT-the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is brought about by whom? By God (in the form of Christ, fulfilling his "I will be there among you" promise) - or by the priest?

If the answer is, "by the priest", he must have supernatural HELP from God-in-Christ, or it wouldn't happen, right?

That being so, and God being omnipotent, what does it matter who the minister is?

[goldstategop]

Liberals who want to subvert the Catholic Church from within, in the name of "equality." The subject of women's ordination as priests is not a matter for discussion. It has been closed by the Church. For those who cannot abide by the teachings of thousands of years, tradition and moral rules ordained by God will not do. The Church must be changed so pagans can feel welcome within it. They're guilty of the crime of severe heresy and deserve complete and final excommunication.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[longtermmemmory]

Somebody please correct me if wrong, but does not the catholic church have a few married priests under a special dispensation because they came from another denomination into the catholic church?

It is also important to mention, that the Easter Orthodox priests who are married when they take their vows, can not rise in the ranks to bishop. Those remain unmarried postitions.

[goldstategop]

The great error of liberals my child, is to confuse equality with sameness. Sameness, whether manifested in a desire to eliminate the distinctive nature of sexuality or the differences inherent in the body, is as you've correctly pointed out in your post, is a modern form of Gnoticism - of the denial of the Christian Doctrine the Word was brought down to earth in the flesh. The Church has never held the body or the created things of the world to be unspiritual or evil. That was the view - and the grevious sin of the early heretics who confused matter with vileness and despised above all the good works of God's Creation. For open the Bible and learn the truth, children - He created all things and declared them good, and in particular, he created man and then woman and declared them good also. It is these teachings liberals wish to deny and that places them in the company of heretics past. They need not the acceptance and approval of the Church but to the contrary, they constitute a foulness and evil to be cast out from its midst. Follow the Word Of God one and all and do not be deceived and do be afraid. Stand firm!

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[justanotherfreeper]

Think: if the Blessed Virgin mary had appeared to John Paul II, which of them would have fallen on their knees?

Here's what I don't get. Catholics have really, really special example of holiness and spiritual importance held up for us in the Blessed Virgin. She never held elective office, wasn't a priest or deacon, didn't run a company, as far as we know couldn't read or write. But I and all other orthodox Catholics believe she was the holiest purely human being every created, Queen of the Angeles and the Saints, and, of course, the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Why? Because of one thing and one thing only: she did what God asked her to do. And God glorified her for her obedience. What God wants may not be what we want, it may be some task the world despises or thinks of as unworthy. These gals want to be priests out of vanity, clearly if GOD wanted them to be priests he would have (and could have) made them men! But obedience and humility, while they may not get you on the cover of "People" are the hallmarks of the Christian walk. Think about all the fabulous, funny, heroic, delightful woman saints there have been, think about the convents and homes and schools and parishes crying out for women to help them in their work. How can these chickees possibly think the Church is anti-woman? Of all the religions on the planet I truly think the Roman Catholic church is the most pro-woman that there is.

[AnAmericanMother]

Matthew 16:18.

Because Christ ordained the priesthood and the Apostolic Succession.

[Jim Noble]

Because Christ ordained the priesthood and the Apostolic Succession.

How and when?

[AnAmericanMother]

John 20:21-23. It's pretty clear. Matthew 16:18-20. With reference to the Succession, Acts 8, esp. 17-20.

[Aquinasfan]

The sex of such a Deity may be an irrational concept

Unless He has two natures, one divine and one human.

[muir_redwoods]

In my mind, it still doesn't follow

[Mrs. Don-o]

In the Catholic Church, priesthood is actually a three-level thing: deacon, priest, bishop. These men have received a sacrament known as Holy Orders, and are called, collectively, clerics.

The celibacy of all ordained clerics in the Western church is what's known as a "discipline," --- a man-made rule ---not a necessary feature of the clerical state always and everywhere.

In the Eastern church, married men can become deacons and priests, but men who are already priests cannot marry. And if married priest becomes widowed, he cannot remarry.

In both East and West, bishops are chosen from among the celibate.

I would guess that in the Catholic Church in the USA, most deacons are married men.

Anyhow, as I said, clerical celibacy is a man-made rule in the West historically, and could conceivably change.

This makes the "married priests" question quite different from the other things that the self-styled progressives typically want to change, such as:

(1) the masculine nature of priesthood (no priestesses)

(2) the indissolubility of a valid sacramental marriage (no divorce/remarriage)

(3) the sanctity of marital intercourse (no non-marital intercourse, no contraception, no perversion)

(4) the sanctity of human life (No abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, suicide.)

The Church could change the unmarried priest rule, but not the other stuff. Because the other stuff is God-made. You can't change His laws any more than you could change the Law of Gravity.

[newzjunkey]

Catholic Women's Ordination Group Outlines Traits for New Pope

To: National Desk and Religion Reporter

Contact: Aisha Taylor of the Women's Ordination Conference, 703 352-1006 or 202 422-2235 cell, Web: http://www.womensordination.org

WASHINGTON, April 15 /U.S. Newswire/ -- As the cardinals begin the conclave to elect the next pope, the Women's Ordination Conference (WOC), a national Catholic organization leading the movement for women priests, states the qualities women want in the next pope.

"The Women's Ordination Conference calls for a pope who will usher in a renewed priesthood that includes women," stated Joy Barnes, the organization's executive director. "Pope John Paul II divided the Catholic Church over the role of women by banning women priests and closing the discussion. We pray for a pope who will take the first step in healing this divide-opening the dialogue on women's ordination."

Pope John Paul II appointed all but three of the cardinals who will be voting and who may become the next pope.

"While I know the reality that many cardinals oppose women's ordination, there is diversity among the College of Cardinals -- some are open to reform," continued Barnes. "However, the election of a pope opposed to progressive Catholic reforms would galvanize the 60 percent of US Catholics who support women's ordination and motivate people in the pews to work for change in the church."

WOC advocates for a pope who:

-- Supports women's ordination into a renewed priestly ministry.

-- Fully embraces gifts of women in all levels of church governance and decision-making.

-- Creates systems of accountability to eradicate abuse, sexism, racism, heterosexism, and all oppression within the church.

-- Develops inclusive ministries and teachings that are relevant to lay Catholics.

-- Incorporates the laity in decision-making bodies of the church.

On Monday, April 18, WOC activists across the United States will protest the lack of women's voices in the conclave during public prayer services. Public actions called "Open the Conclave with Pink Smoke" are confirmed in Chicago, Cleveland, Denver, Lexington, Ky., Washington, D.C., and more.

Founded in 1975, the Women's Ordination Conference promotes the voices of Catholic women excluded from official church structures. WOC can arrange interviews with women called to priesthood, ordained Catholic women, feminist theologians, and church historians to speak about the issue of women priests. For more resources on women's ordination, the legacy of Pope John Paul II, and selecting a new pope, visit http://www.womensordination.org.

http://www.usnewswire.com/

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/© 2005 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/

[anniegetyourgun]

I'm not Catholic, but it seems to me that "pink smoke" is a result of strange fire.