Posted on 04/12/2005 1:48:41 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
But married priests at least is a possibility because it is only a discipline on the Roman Rite of the Church. Eastern Catholics in union with Rome do have married priests. But what will never happen is women in the priesthood.
They'll figure out the money. Will having more priests bring in more money? Will the outlay for a wife and kids.....and child support and alimony outweigh it? There's a lot of legal stuff involved in this decision.
HOWEVER, my own personal feeling is that "celibacy" is not the greatest of sacrifices for many adults and I'm betting there's only a handful of priests that are virgins....(If that many).
I suppose that married priests would be the best examples of dealing with parishioners who have family problems but the reality is, those married priests will have problems, too.
So, cut your losses and deny marriage. Don't forget, up until the 14th century, (I think), they were allowed to marry. So, the question becomes: What REALLY caused the change in the marriage rule??? Could there have been a scandal we don't know about....and never will?
Women as priests......Sorry, don't want it and don't need it. If you don't like it...too bad. (And I'm a woman).
Why aren't these freaks identified as 'liberal' women. I'm Catholic and they don't represent my views at all.
Of course I want to go back to Vatican 1.
I'm going to start my own group dedicated to excommunicating vain uppity liberals.
we shall agree to disagree. I can't listen to a female preacher for more than 10 seconds.
There are no references to women as priests or bishops in the Bible or in any archaelogical find.
There are women who financially supported or endowed churches that are referenced in the Scriptures and in the archaeological record, but no record of women being ordained or appointed over churches.
I just believe priests are married to the church, and that it is not fair to the spouse, or the church. Too many chances for dilemmas. Say a family member has a health issue, is he going to sacrifice his church duties to tend to them?
There were never women priests bud... Some women acted as if... there were a few encyclicals, but no women priests..
Even so, the whole argument is asenine.. Women can never be priests -- the word is male by definition. It's like a woman wanting to become a king-- silly.
>>>>>Maybe I have a different take on things. I wouldn't have problems if the Church allowed women as priests. What's more important is that the priest (be it a man or a woman) have the orthodox belief in the real presence of the Eucharist.
Please identify one denomination that has allowed women clergy and has retained even a shred of orthodoxy.
patent
Why can't that role be done by the Deacons?
In a Wrinkle In Time, Madeline L'Engle depicts a society which has confused "equality" with "sameness." It is a horror.
Won't happen.
I agree entirely. But I just wanted to make clear that a married priesthood at least is possible where as a female preisthood is not.
Ephesians 5:22-33
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church– 30for we are members of his body.
31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32This is a profound mystery–but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Does THAT "sound Islamic" ?
The following groups are listed as dissenting groups in the area of women's ordination. They do NOT reporesent the Catholic Church!!
| Women-Church | Promotes women priests ("priestesses"). |
| Women's Ordination Conference (WOC) | WOC promotes women priests ("priestesses"). WOC is characterized by strong language denouncing "the patriarchal church" and the papacy of John Paul II. WOC leaders have suggested "new" sacraments that mark stages in a woman's life. Example: "Sacrament of Croning" at age fifty to herald the coming of "Wisdom." A recent WOC conference claimed ordination meant subordination; consequently, ordination needs to be Reconstructed. It is not unusual for WOC meetings to begin with an invocation to a pagan goddess, and may feature a pagan ritual meal. Member of Catholic Organizations for Renewal. |
| Women's Ordination Worldwide (WOW) | Promotes women priests ("priestesses"). |
| Women in Church Leadership (WICL) | Promotes women priests ("priestesses"). |
| Women's Alliance for Theology Ethics and Ritual (WATER) | Emphasis is on "inclusiveness," in liturgy and re-interpretation of the Scriptures to the radical feminist view. |
Unfortunately for the RC church, the best arguments for the all-male ministerial priesthood have not been gathered into a teaching document. Much better has been the effort of the Orthodox communities. For example, one argument comes from the persistent metaphor of the Church as the Bride of Christ and Christ as the Bridegroom (this image comes from many strands of the Gospel traditions, from Paul, and from Revelation at least). If one conceives the priest as the alter-Christus, as the Catholics and Orthodox do, then the maleness of the priest is required in order for this metaphor to continue to have meaning. And this metaphor is not a minor image in the New Testament: it is central, and speaks to the very meaning of the relationship between Christ and the believing community.
Well if men can become nuns????
(1) The Catholic Church of Czechoslovakia was not underground. It was a heavily monitored yet aboveground institution, just like the Church in Poland.
(2) Liberalization of Catholic practice and teaching was a goal of the state and there were many fake Catholics doing unorthodox things at the government's direction in the Eastern Bloc.
(3)Even if one is capable of being ordained, i.e. one is a man, he can only be legitimately ordained by a bishop. I don't recall Archbishop Tomacek authorizing any ordinations of women of women or performing any.
So this statement is clearly a lie, and actually may be several lies wrapped together.
There are alternative viewpoints as to the meaning of that passage among serious Bible scholars:
A Response to J. I. Packer’s Position on Women’s Ordination
http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/free_articles/may.shtml
The following was by written by Fr. Robert J. Levis, of Erie, PA on 09-10-2003:
“Celibacy will remain a characteristic of the Western Priesthood for the following reasons:
1. The priest is considered a groom, like Christ the Groom, married to the whole Church. This is an ancient patriarchal notion and a good one. This Christian union is monogamous, one husband with one wife. The priest's wife is his people whom he serves without counting the effort.
2. The vocation of the priest is to stand in the person of Christ who was celibate throughout his whole life.
3. The primary purpose of marriage is the rearing and training of children, an enormous task. An essential duty of the priest is to administer the Sacraments most especially the Holy Eucharist, a most solemn duty which requires a detached life, much solitary prayer, and training for homiletic work.
4. The priest is considered the "sexless one", the man to whom all, men and women, may come in complete freedom and openness with their counseling problems. Any woman can see the priest who is not some woman's husband, which is a freedom for her and an advantage for the independent priest.
5. Imagine the costs of providing for a priest and his non-conceptive family, a real practical consideration in these times.”
I think married priests will happen before women priests if ever since there were married priests in the Catholic Church until 1139 AD......obviously the Eastern Orthodox Catholic tradition believes there is scriptural support for married priests
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