Catholic Women’s Ordination Conference Lays Out the Case for Women Priests

WOC ^ | 4/12/05 | Women's Ordination Conference

[ArrogantBustard]

ROFL!!!!

[B Knotts]

APOSTOLIC LETTER ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS OF JOHN PAUL II TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION TO MEN ALONE

Responsum ad Dubium Concerning the Teaching Contained in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

[djreece]

I believe it is critical that those of us who believe in the Bible as the inspired Word of God always be willing in humility to examine our understanding and interpretation of it. We need to be sure we are truly following what God says rather than longstanding cultural traditions or what others have told us God says. We need to keep a Berean spirit of examining the Scriptures to see whether these things are so.

P.S. When I talk about "serious Bible scholars," I am NOT talking about Jesus Seminar freaks.

[Jim Noble]

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent

Good thing the women at the tomb were not silent...

[ArrogantBustard]

That isn't quite correct ... let's not commit modalism here.

Jesus = The Son = GOD
The Holy Spirit = GOD
The Father = GOD

The Father != The Son
The Father != The Holy Spirit
The Son != The Holy spirit

Look up the Athanasian Creed ... It thorougly sets the record straight, and refutes the Arians, the Nestorians, the Monophysites, the Modalists, and the rest of that wretched lot.

[don-o]

One cannot pull out a verse of the New Testament (nor the Torah, for that matter) to prove a point. The context is all important in understanding what a verse is saying.

There was controversy in that day concerning whether women even possessed a soul. I think this is what St Paul was speaking to in this epistle.

[AnAmericanMother]

The so-called "Sacrament of Croning" mentioned in that chart you posted is pure pagan. In fact, it's specifically Wiccan and among those associated with COTG (Covenant of the Goddess).

Gotta friend who's a Third Degree . . .

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The vast majority of the liberal feminists involved with this would not be qualified for ordination or holy orders for reasons OTHER than just their gender. Many of these women are feminists or struggling with gender identity issues. Ugly and obese women usually vent a lot of anger at men for reasons other than just disagreements about theology which they use to get attention. But women struggling with mental illness issues and other unresolved emotional complexes would not be qualified for religious life. Psychic disorders in general are an impediment on sound canonical grounds.

[sionnsar]

From an Anglican blog earlier this year, Womens' Ordination (reasons against). Also the AMiA produced a document against.

[kingattax]

tell God that, it's His Word....not mine.

[Right_in_Virginia]

the Women’s Ordination Conference (WOC)

I suggest they find a different Church.

[griffin]

"The problem has always been one of obedience rather than understanding."

EXACTLY.

[AnAmericanMother]

Good caveat. If you read the original Greek, it doesn't say 'one man' - it uses the Greek word for the number "one": eiV

panteV gar umeiV eiV este en cristw ihsou

That isn't where I thought the Greek would lead -- in addition, there are two words translated as "man" - one meaning the male specifically, one meaning "human beings". The adjectives used earlier in the passage are the specific ones for male and female - "arsen kai qhlu". But that issue didn't even arise here.

[griffin]

"Good thing the women at the tomb were not silent..."

Were the women at the tomb teaching?

[AnAmericanMother]

I think women as rabbis and cantors are wonderful!

And I don't have a problem with women as teachers or cantors (in fact I am a cantor, every fourth Sunday - members of the choir share the job around.)

A problem here that is specifically pertinent to Catholicism is the function of the priest, which doesn't obtain in Judaism (at least not until the Temple is rebuilt, I guess - but you instruct me on that point if I am off base).

Anyhow, in Catholic (and some Anglican) belief, the priest is an alter Christus, another Christ, who participates in the Divine Sacrifice on the altar. A woman cannot do this by definition.

As a purely practical matter, I'm in a good position to judge because the ECUSA parish I used to belong to before the family Crossed the Tiber was the training parish for our diocese. I was in the parish about 28 years and saw every newly ordained female priest as they went through their training. With ONE exception, none of them were fit for the liturgical office of priest.

As a poster has noted above, a lot of these women are priests not because they hear an authentic call from God, but because they have various unresolved "issues". Some are doing it to prove a political point, some feel that it's necessary from a cultural point of view, some are radical feminists, and some are just frankly man-hating lesbians who join up to "get the men". (At least the church fired THAT one.)

I haven't been very impressed.

[wideawake]

Jesus is every bit as much God as the Father or the Holy Spirit.

He always happens to be every bit as much a man as I.

The Father != The Son The Father != The Holy Spirit The Son != The Holy spirit

The Athanasian Creed states: "But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty".

[sinkspur]

Married priests ain't gonna happen either.

Don't be so sure. There are many bishops who favor married priests, based on the successful experience of the Anglican dispensation.

[Apercu]

Just what Catholics need - secular feminism corrupting it's traditons through women in the priesthood. If they can't come to the party & make everyone listen to THEIR music, they want to spoil it for everyone else. If they don't like it, become a Wiccan or Druid.

[llama hunter]

Maybe what the Catholic Church needs to do is find a role for women, other than nuns, which isn't a priest per se or do you allow nuns to have a greater role? As I understand it, nuns have no role in the governance of the church nor its ceremonies, correct? And perhaps they could even find scriptural authority for something like that?

Hey anyone can be creative with a man written document.

After all the Torah prescribes stoning as the penalty for adultery but I hadn't noticed a whole lot of Jewish stonings going on, but hey, that's what the Bible says.....

[LadyDoc]

hate to tell you, but Eastern catholics have married priests. Like the Orthodox, priests can't marry, but married men can become priests.


To me, this seems to be a good compromise: If an older married deacon wants to become a priest, he should be allowed to do so after serving as a deacon for several years.

But the REAL problem with "married priests" is that those pushing it have another agenda, just like wyminpriests: The destruction of the church.

You can see it in their first sentence: That men and women are equal....they interpret this "equal" as "same"...in John Paul II's talks on the theology of the body, he insists that men and women both have talents, but that our sexuality is deeply part of our being.

Denying the reality of the body, including our sexual identity, is a form of gnosticism, i.e. denial of the reality of the body. It's a form of pride... you see, if you ignore the body, you ignore the body's weakness, and holiness becomes who is hoity toity and spiritual (think of gurus, or even monks).

But the whole point of Christianity is that we can become saints as fully human beings-- not rejecting our bodies, but placing them in relationship to God. So even making love is a way of praising God and serving God, since giving to each other wholeheartedly and being open to life leads to the miracle of babies.

Ultimately, womenpriests and the denial of the importance of two sexes leads to confusion...and to homosexuality, to contraception and the denial of the importance of the family...