Totalization With Mexico Could "Total" Social Security

Men's News Daily - The Gunners Corner ^ | Monday, April 18, 2005 | Mike Minton

[hedgetrimmer]

Totalization probably came from here:

Articles of the United Nations Model Double Taxation Convention between Developed and Developing Countries

Another UN treaty that most Americans(including myself) have never heard of until now.

[ken5050]

Thanks..I never heard of that treaty either...IMHO I thikt he UN is imploding..those "high" officials now under investigation in the OFF scandal..well, they will sell out KOfi and the others in a second..to cut a deal for themselves..what's gonna come out will be amazing..

[hedgetrimmer]

I thikt he UN is imploding..those "high" officials now under investigation in the OFF scandal

I don't think its imploding. With all its subsidiary organziations, working groups and NGOs, the thing is a monster that will not soon perish. Like the hydra, you can cut one head off, but there are 6 others (World Bank, WTO, IMF, etc.) that will still function.

[ken5050]

Gotta disagree...the House is just sitting back..waiting to see what happens..and Coleman is steaming at how he's been ignored by the UN higher-ups..The BIG issue is the $2 bill US "Loan " for a new building...This will never happen until unless EVERYTHING comes out..and BTW..the US guy at the UN in charge of kicking over the garbage cans will soon be Bolton..

[hedgetrimmer]

IMO, because many politicians use our federal government as a stepping stone to careers as international bureaucrats, they won't let the UN fail. They have their careers to look after, after all, IMO.

[FBD]

According to this article, "guest" workers would only have to work 18 months here in the U.S, to be eligible for Social In-Security benefits!


http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/0104/011604-mexico.htm

[blackie]

Total ~ Bump!

[WRhine]

According to this article, "guest" workers would only have to work 18 months here in the U.S, to be eligible for Social In-Security benefits!

There are apparently no limits to the extent our government will betray the American People.

[FBD]

>"what is the genesis of the word "totalization?".where did it spring from?..sounds like one of those innocuous government gobbledygook words to make something sound different from what it really is."<

I don't know...ask Ben Fincklin, he will probably know.

See his link here, he posted to an article that claims minumum wage illegal aliens will save Social Security.

Ben believes that...
>..Never mind that minumum wage workers (on the average) use three times as much in government assistance as they pay in taxes, including FICA.
(Illegal aliens pay approx. 10 billion in taxes, and recieve 26 billion in government benefits.)

But Ben's also for anything that will help destroy our national sovereignty. That's part of his socialist agenda.
Isn't that right Ben? ;^)

Additional info HERE:
http://www.ssa.gov/international/agreements_overview.html

[american spirit]

Gee, when it comes to illegal immigration we've had to endure anchor babies/chain migration, huge increases in healthcare premiums to offset hospital care for illegals, Motor Voter / open invitation to massive vote fraud, tens of billions in other related "services" to them, etc........looks more and more like Congress and other fedgov types are bound and determined to force national suicide on us at every turn.

[FBD]

Hello HT,
Please post some of your links here on this subject.
I know you are very well informed on this subject.

Perhaps you can help school Ben Finklin on this matter.
(See his #12 post.)

[FBD]

Sorry 'bout that here's the story:

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/0104/011604-mexico.htm

'Totalization Agreement With Mexico Draws Criticism'
By Mike Minton
Talon News
January 16, 2004

"The Social Security Totalization agreement that was part of President Bush's "temporary worker" proposal last week has stirred up a hornet's nest among some law-makers..."

[FBD]

and now add totalization socual in-security benefits with Mexico, to your list...

related story:

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/0104/011604-mexico.htm

'Totalization Agreement With Mexico Draws Criticism'
By Mike Minton

[FBD]

Countries we have totalization agreements with, and the date they entered into agreement:

Italy November 1, 1978
Germany December 1, 1979
Switzerland November 1, 1980
Belgium July 1, 1984
Norway July 1, 1984
Canada August 1, 1984
United Kingdom January 1, 1985
Sweden January 1, 1987
Spain April 1, 1988
France July 1, 1988
Portugal August 1, 1989
Netherlands November 1, 1990
Austria November 1, 1991
Finland November 1, 1992
Ireland September 1, 1993
Luxembourg November 1, 1993
Greece September 1, 1994
South Korea April 1, 2001
Chile December 1, 2001
Australia October 1, 2002

[FBD]

>"There are apparently no limits to the extent our government will betray the American People."<

It's beginning to appear that way. see my tagline.

BTW, one of the most informed posters on this subject is Hedge Trimmer. He has been an excellent source of info, and has plenty of links, if you are interested.

Regards

[hedgetrimmer]

Totalization: Sellout of American Workers

When George W. Bush became President in 2001, the Mexican government expected the United States to pass amnesty (disguised as a guest worker plan and "regularizing" the entry of Mexicans). After 9/11, Mexico's national policy turned to increasing the number of its nationals working in the United States and getting them to qualify for all the social benefits and privileges Americans receive, from driver's licenses to Social Security and Social Security Disability.

The Social Security commissioners of both Mexico and the Bush Administration signed a totalization agreement in June of 2004, but the text of the agreement has been kept secret. Maybe we will be permitted to see it after the President approves it and sends it to Congress.

Social Security proposal for Mexico Ruffles Feathers

The few Americans able to benefit from the totalization (around 3,000 Americans work in Mexico, compared to the 9.2 million Mexicans living in the United States) would not receive as many positive effects as Mexicans would from American Social Security. The U.S. system helps low-wage earners by giving them far more then they contribute, while Mexican Social Security gives the worker only exactly what they contribute, along with accrued interest, Dinerstein explained.

Dinerstein said that the Mexican government officials are pressuring the United States to accept their agenda through repetition of two points. They say that the United States should focus on the war on terror and stop harassing immigrants who only want a better life, and that it is only fair for Mexico to be treated like Canada, another U.S. Social Security partner. But Dinerstein maintained that Mexico's situation is fundamentally different then other Social Security partner countries and that this agreement would hurt America financially.

Mexamerica

The amount of American dollars flowing to Mexico could soon skyrocket. The Bush Administration is reportedly negotiating a “totalization” agreement with Mexico that would allow Mexicans who retire to their native land to get monthly Social Security checks south of the border. While this would put an added drain on Social Security just as Baby Boomers are starting to retire, advocates argue that to do any less than this would rob immigrants. A cynic might observe that this could persuade millions of aging Mexican retirees to return to Mexico to become a burden on its healthcare system instead of ours.

The North American Free Trade Agreement signed into law by President Bill Clinton implies that not only goods but also labor should be allowed to move across the fading U.S.-Mexican border. By such reasoning, why not let Social Security checks cross the border, even if this flow makes the U.S. poorer and Mexico richer? It is the osmotic pressure of Mexico’s poverty that propels so much of its population through our porous border in search of a better life.

The criminal raid on Social Security

While innocent babes who have yet to earn a penny are threatened with jail time for misusing Social Security cards, the Bush administration appears set this week to turn the ailing government pension program into an international relief fund for illegal alien workers who used counterfeit Social Security cards and stolen numbers to secure illegal jobs.

The bureaucrats call this scheme "totalization." Try total prostration. The proposed agreement is nothing more than a transfer of wealth from those who play by the rules to those who willingly and knowingly mock our own immigration and tax laws. What are we doing promising lifetime Social Security paychecks to day laborers in Juarez when we can't even guarantee those benefits to workers here at home?

Unbelievably, the White House is trying to convince us to embrace this global ripoff because it "rewards work." No, it rewards criminal behavior. The plan will siphon off the hard-earned tax dollars of American workers who may never see a dime of their confiscated earnings and fork it over to foreigners guilty of at least four acts of federal law-breaking: crossing the border illegally, working illegally, engaging in tax fraud and using bogus documents.

[FBD]

bump^ Ping to HB2.
excellant post, thanks HT

[FBD]

>"It may be good for the Southern Hemisphere but it is hurting America. "<

-I recall from some info that hedgetrimmer posted once, that Mexico gets something like 90 billion in money transfers per year from the U.S.? Perhaps more. HT, do you have that link available?

[FBD]

thanks B58 H.

regards

[FBD]

Excellent idea, posed by TLI:
The next time your Congress Critter sends you a request for a campaign donation, try this:

"See if you can locate some peso's, the smallest denomination coins you can find. Hand write on the donation request "Here is my donation. Get used to it. You are telling me to."

"If they get enough of the peso donations they will get the message REAL quick."

Ha! Yeah...hey Senator Smith: "get used to it."