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To: Ahban; DarkSavant

"So if I want to rape your sister and your mother in front of you and then slit all of your throats you can't really say I am wrong for that, right? Actually, I might prefer to feed you all feet first into a wood chipper."

It appears you have failed to read my entire post or perhaps did a line item veto of your own. I talked about the individual's pursuit of happiness and I specifically decried nonconsensual violence as a detriment to that. I am quite sure that my sister and mother would not consent to being raped and having their throat slit. I have no problem with people being a danger to themselves as their self is their own personal responsiblility, but to other people is an infringement of individual rights.

Either way the murderer and Mother Teresa do have things in common: their motive is self-gratification. The killer gets pleasure from carnage and Mother Teresa gets pleasure from her charity work in India. We are all here on this Earth to experience self-gratification...no exceptions.

"Are you stating that there is no objective truth? Or that there is an objective truth that we don't fully know, so therefore people should not impose their beliefs on others?"

Somewhere in between...there is an objective truth, but we will never really fully know what it is, so let us not impose our beliefs upon each other.

Anyway...back to the subject matter..you have failed to answer why it is such a crisis that Europe's population is decreasing and that there are more Muslims in the nation...unlike the "Christian" right here...they haven't openly pushed for theocracy in those nations. Also their presence proves my point...religion can still thrive within a secular government.


33 posted on 05/01/2005 9:33:47 AM PDT by leftwingrightwingbrokenwing (vitriolic libertarian)
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To: leftwingrightwingbrokenwing

You are trying to have it both ways. FR is good for the mind in that we sharpen on another, and destroy each other's misconceptions.

If you are right about absolutely no absolutes (an abusurdity)...If all morality is relative, with no objective existence, or if we can never know what it is, then you have no business making an absolute of the "individuals pursuit of happiness" or of "nonconsenual violence". Either their is knowable objective morality or there is not. If there is, then it should be the basis of our agreement on what the rules for society should be. If there is not, then don't come to me with your nonsense about "individuals pursuit of happiness" or "non onconsenual violence". Those become phony absolutes that you are trying to impose on me with no objective basis, no less objectionable than my effort to impose bible-based laws on you. Please stop the hypocrisy.


34 posted on 05/01/2005 9:49:13 AM PDT by Ahban
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To: leftwingrightwingbrokenwing
Somewhere in between...there is an objective truth, but we will never really fully know what it is, so let us not impose our beliefs upon each other.

You're imposing your beliefs on me.

Anyway...back to the subject matter..you have failed to answer why it is such a crisis that Europe's population is decreasing and that there are more Muslims in the nation...unlike the "Christian" right here...they haven't openly pushed for theocracy in those nations. Also their presence proves my point...religion can still thrive within a secular government.

Theocracy is part of the Islamic Religion, they always have heavily taxed non-muslims and essentially made them seond-class citizens wherever they have seized power. The reason they haven't done it yet is because there aren't enough of them in those coujntries yet, butthe day will come.
35 posted on 05/01/2005 9:51:33 AM PDT by DarkSavant
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To: leftwingrightwingbrokenwing
"It is all a matter of people making their choices not to have as many children as in the past. If it makes them happy, why take the choice away from them?"

Certainly the culture of "me me me me me" has a part in the demographic collapse. But the US is also a "me" society, yet we have a much higher birthrate, even among those of european descent. I asked my daughter, who was going to school in France, why the young French are not having children. She said one big factor is a bad economy with poor economic opportunities brought on by socialism. She knew quite a few French kids with advanced degrees who were working part-time because that was all they could get. The French who do work are carrying a gigantic bureaucracy and welfare system on fewer and fewer shoulders. It is difficult to establish the economic basis for raising a family.

40 posted on 05/01/2005 10:33:43 AM PDT by ImpeachandRemove
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