Plenty of truth in that.
I don't think 2nd generation stuff usually does very well at all.
I listened to 100's of hours of Kenneth Hagin's tapes. I don't recall ever catching him in an unBiblical statement or attitude. And, he had some 'outs' that his son even and other disciples would not acknowledge.
His son came across to me as an arrogant . . . and I had no respect for his ministry. I think Copeland does well. But I wouldn't give a plug nickel for a host of Hagin disciples. A LOT got lost in the translation.
I think Warren has a lot that CAN be useful to a lot of churches. But to slavishly apply anything--even Scripture IF NOT LED OF HOLY SPIRIT can be as deadly as the letter of the law.
I think a big problem is too many pastors and parishioners failing to GO TO THE LORD, THE FATHER, THE SPIRIT DAILY moment by moment to get their marching orders as well as daily Manna.
Being lazy and trying to shoehorn their ministry onto the coattails of someone else's--no matter how Biblical or Spirit-led the original--will typically not work or not work well.
Some are earnestly seeking to do GREAT THINGS FOR GOD so they hop on the latest bandwagon. But often, God is still interested in them learning to BE WITH HIM, FOCUSED ON HIM, LEARNING DIRECTLY FROM HIM--even learning to be broken before Him. And therefore, HE WILL SABOTAGE EVEN THE BEST SYSTEM OR PATTERN OR METHOD. It's not about systems or patterns or methods. It's about RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FATHER. And too often, pastors chase around all over the creation avoiding that and trying to make every other THING produce SUCCESS--which is too often translated into big numbers of people and dollars.
I dont even know where to start.
"I listened to 100's of hours of Kenneth Hagin's tapes. I don't recall ever catching him in an unBiblical statement or attitude" ~ Quix
Reeeeeeally????
Hagin, Kenneth:
Prominent Word-Faith teacher. Sometimes erroneously referred to as the "Father of the Word-Faith Movement." That title belongs to E.W. Kenyon, much of whose work Hagin plagiarized (documented in D.R. McConnell's book "A Different Gospel.")
...Christ's physical death on the cross was not enough to save us. [How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01]
Jesus tasted spiritual death. [How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01]
The Christian "is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth." ["The Incarnation," The Word of Faith Mag.]
"[Man] was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of inferiority...God made us as much like Himself as possible...He made us the same class of being that He is Himself...Man lived in the realm of God. He lived on terms equal with God...[The] believer is called Christ...That's who we are; we're Christ" ["Zoe: The God-Kind of Life," 1989. pp. 35-36, 41]
"Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth" ["The Incarnation," The Word of Faith mag.]
"You are as much the incarnation of God as Jesus Christ was...the believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth." ["Word Of Faith" mag.]
"Why did He need to be begotten or born? Because He became like we were - separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death. Jesus is the first person that was ever born again. Why did His spirit need to be born again? Because it was estranged from God." [Kenneth Hagin, "How Jesus obtained His Name"
Tape #44-H01]
More: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/h00.html
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Word-Faith Movement
Also known as "Name-in-Claim-it," "Health and Wealth Gospel," "Positive Confession," "Word of Faith," etc.
Word-Faith teachers owe their ancestry to groups like Christian Science, Swedenborgianism, Theosophy, Science of Mind, and New Thought ..." More here: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/w00.html#wordf
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"I think Copeland does well." ~ Quix
Reeeeally????
Kenneth and Gloria Copeland
These prominent Word-Faith teachers head ''Kenneth Copeland Ministries.'' Here: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/w00.html#wordf
Copeland is responsible for spreading many of the Faith movement's unbiblical teachings. He distorts the biblical concepts of faith and covenant. He reduces God to the image of man while elevating man to the status of God. He lowers Jesus to being a product of positive confession who took on a satanic nature at the cross. And he promotes the occult practice of creative visualization.
Two (tip of the iceberg) Copeland quotes:
"God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself...He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even." "Following the Faith of Abraham," tape 01-3001, n.d.
"You don't have a god in you, you are one." "The Force of Love," tape 02-0028, 1987
LOTS more here http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c53.html such as:
Kenneth Copeland and The Bible
Copeland's teachings vs. the Bible.
More quotes
I have a son who is a product of Rhema Bible Training Center. He and his wife are Children/Youth Pastors.
I've probably read almost every book that Hagin ever wrote and I never found anything that I thought was the least bit off-message.
GOD doesn't "sabotage" programs - they are sabotaged by lack of understanding on the part of the persons doing the programs. When something doesn't work - some people are reluctant to examine it and admit it was a mistake and go on to something else.