Texas rivals vie to land Air-India

HindustanTimes.com ^ | New Delhi, May 30, 2005 | Staff

[Paleo Conservative]

With Air-India eyeing the Texas market for its newest on-ground hub, Houston and Dallas are engaged in an aerial dogfight to determine which city will land the India's national airline.

Houston has an advantage in demographics with 120,000 residents of Indian descent, and aviation officials in the city estimate that bringing Air-India to Bush Intercontinental Airport would generate at least $200 million in economic benefits to the area.

The Houston Business Journal, however, quoted John Massey, manager of Air-India's marketing programme in New York City as saying that "Right now, there are no definite plans."

"There are no formal decisions that have been arrived at yet, but factors for deciding will include assessment of traffic potential, revenue potential and demographics -- which will be a major determinant," Massey told the journal.

But, according to the report, the North Texas pilots see twice the potential. They feel that the India deal would have an economic impact of $400 million on the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex.

The 2000 Census showed 49,669 Indians in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, but Metroplex boosters now say that number has risen to at least 80,000.

Following its acquisition last month of 50 large passenger aircraft from Chicago-based Boeing Inc. for $6.8 billion, Air-India Ltd. has been eyeing the Texas market for its newest on-ground hub and Dallas has been most active behind the scenes to attract the airline to its international airport.

Indian-Americans feel that Houston may be doing "too little, too late".

"The airport authority and city can do more," D Randhir Sinha, a Clear Lake-based neurosurgeon who also serves as the president of the Indo-American Chamber of Commerce of Greater Houston, was quoted by the Dallas Business Journal.

"Dallas is a lot more aggressive... Houston needs to take it to the next level," Sinha was quoted as saying.

One factor in Houston's favour may be that it's home to one of only four Indian consulates in the United States, as well as many other overseas consulates. Dallas has only four full consulates, one of which the British consulate is in the process of closing, reports indicated.

Houston also can claim to be more of an international destination. Its airports handled more than 6 million international passengers in 2004, compared with just over 5 million in Dallas, the journal said.

A Dallas Businessman AK Mago was quoted as saying that, "We are all working hard..."

According to Mago, president of a commercial real estate investment firm, "I have lived in Dallas for 30-plus years...From my personal perspective I would like to have Dallas be chosen, but again it will be up to Air-India to decide."

Under current conditions, Texas travellers must first fly to existing Air-India hubs in New York, New Jersey, Los Angeles or Europe when connecting to India.

[Paleo Conservative]

I would think Houston would be more likely to get Air India. They have a bigger Indian population, and there is more international air traffic at IAH than DFW.

[Paleo Conservative]

Ping!

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail not by posting to this thread.

[bayourod]

It would be nice to have more Hindu businessmen opening businesses in Houston. I've always found them to be honorable.

[Larry Lucido]

Off topic, but is Love Field still governed by the Wright Amendment, or can they start taking on more domestic routes from non-contiguous states?

[jolie560]

Air India--on the move

[Jedidah]

Wright Amendment is still in effect, but repeal is under active discussion.

[Paleo Conservative]

Off topic, but is Love Field still governed by the Wright Amendment, or can they start taking on more domestic routes from non-contiguous states?

Actually it is not off topic, if you'll notice I put it in the key words indexing this thread. Yes the Wright amendment is in place and allows nonstop flights only to US states contiguous to Texas plus Kansas and Mississippi. If the Wright amendment were repealed AA would have to operate some flights from DAL rather than DFW. Diverting traffic away from DFW would decrease the number of potential connections to international flights. DFW has considerably more international air service than the origin and destination traffic to and from the D/FW metroplex would warrant. It is only justifiable for DFW to have the level of international air service it has based on passengers connecting there from other cities. Those who wish to do away with the Wright amendment should be careful about what they ask for.

[PAR35]

The Wright amendment was modified a few years ago to add a few additional states (Mississippi & Alabama), but that had little functional impact. (One of the senators from Alabama was behind the change. They gave him that to keep him from pushing for a full repeal.

[jneesy]

ahhhh the benifits of LEGAL immigration

[John Will]

Any Idea on how long it would take for a flight from Houston to New Dehil?

I don't travel much.

[Larry Lucido]

Thanks.

[Paleo Conservative]

Any Idea on how long it would take for a flight from Houston to New Dehil?

It depends whether it is a nonstop flight or if it is a one stop through a European airport most likely London Heathrow. I doubt there would be a nonstop flight from Houston to Delhi, because the only plane Air India migh use for that distance would be the 777-200LR. Notice that Delhi is in Northern India near the Himalayas. A twin engined plane like the 777 cannot currently fly over the Himalayas due to international regulations. A non-stop flight from Houston or Dallas would be much more likely to go to Mumbai (formerly Bombay), because the restrictions on twin engined planes flying over the Himalayas would not apply. It is likley that instead of being nonstop, the flight would fly first to London Heathrow first, then go to Mumbai (BOM) or New Delhi (DEL). Due to the intermediate stop, they could fly a 747-400 which has no restrictions flying over the Himalayas. A stop at Heathrow would be very beneficial to DFW, because Air India has 5th freedom rights in and out of Britain to pick up and drop off passengers going both directions. Under the Bermuda II protocol currently Dallas is not on the list of cities from which US carriers can fly to Heathrow. Air India has the rights to land there, and they aren't bound by Bermuda II.

Click on the picture to go to the Great Circle mapping website.

IAH (29°59'04"N 95°20'29"W) BOM (19°05'19"N 72°52'05"E) 8967 mi 15:49

2 segment path: 9321 mi 16:26
IAH (29°59'04"N 95°20'29"W) LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) 4834 mi 8:32
LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) BOM (19°05'19"N 72°52'05"E) 4487 mi 7:55

IAH (29°59'04"N 95°20'29"W) DEL (28°33'59"N 77°06'11"E) 8373 mi 14:46

2 segment path: 9024 mi 15:55
IAH (29°59'04"N 95°20'29"W) LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) 4834 mi 8:32
LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) DEL (28°33'59"N 77°06'11"E) 4190 mi 7:23

[Jedidah]

I agree with your statement that those who wish to do away with the Wright Amendment should be careful what they wish for. It is not a simple matter.

One thing that bothers me -- nothing to do with business, just ethics -- are the promises made when DFW International was built. For the new airport to thrive, it was essential that the major airlines relocate there. Both cities agreed on that. As I recall, the FAA was also pressuring Dallas to move air traffic from Love Field for safety reasons. It is closely surrounded by city, very little room for error in takeoffs and landings. Increasing the number of flights out of Love was dangerous then, and it still is today.

I just think that promises are promises, and that they should be kept even though 30+ years have passed.

If Southwest wants to fly long haul, they should just move those flights to the available empty gates at DFW and play with the big guys.

[Central Scrutiniser]

I'd go with IAH, better airport.

One of the last few places I never got to, would love to see India. What are they gonna fly there, its out of the range of their 747's,

[Central Scrutiniser]

Runways at LUV too short for a non stop to India, facilities not sufficient for a flight, connections not there either, it will be DFW or IAH.

[Paleo Conservative]

I just think that promises are promises, and that they should be kept even though 30+ years have passed.

If Southwest wants to fly long haul, they should just move those flights to the available empty gates at DFW and play with the big guys.

I agree with you, but unfortunately the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals doesn't, and the US Supreme Court refused to hear a case on this issue. Southwest was not flying in 1967 when the airlines at Love Field signed the promise to move to DFW when it was opened. The 5th Circuit ruled that as long as DAL stays open as an airport, Southwest must be allowed to operate there. The city of Dallas has two choices. They can completely close Love Field and tear it down, or they can let it remain open so that general aviation can use it and various businesses at the airport can remain in operation there. There's no way that Dallas will make companies that customize and service private planes move elsewhere.

The 5th Circuit's ruling is a danger to any city in the US that wants to build a new airport for passenger service but keep the existing airport for general aviation and aviation businesses. Currently San Diego, California has the busiest airport in the US that only has one runway. Unfortunately there is no room to build another runway without condemning developed private property adjacent to the current airport. Possibly they could build a new airport further from downtown or convert an existing former naval air station to a commercial airport, but Southwest has already said they won't move. Of course without the authority to force them to move to a new airport, they can't sell bonds.

[Paleo Conservative]

Runways at LUV too short for a non stop to India, facilities not sufficient for a flight, connections not there either, it will be DFW or IAH.

So how did Braniff operate a 747-100 out of Love Field for two years doing a daily non-stop flight to Honolulu prior to moving to DFW in 1973? Before that they flew a 707 to Honolulu from DAL.

"Terminal of the Future" 1968-1972
Dallas Love Field

[Central Scrutiniser]

Big difference, HNL is about 3200 or so miles, India is about 7500-8000 miles.

[Paleo Conservative]

One of the last few places I never got to, would love to see India. What are they gonna fly there, its out of the range of their 747's

If they fly nonstop to Mumbai, they'll use a 777-200LR. If they fly a one-stop, they'll probably fly a 747-400. The have 5th freedom rights in Britain, and are not bound by Bermuda II. If they flew out of DFW they could get lots of traffic flying to LHR in addition to the DFW-BOM passengers. DFW isn't on the list of cities which US carriers can fly to LHR.

[Central Scrutiniser]

SAN has tons of abandoned buildings that could be cleared for a runway, but I think they have some environmental issues. As far as the airport goes, its biggest problem is the damned parking garage that the Dollar car rental is just beneath. Its too high, I've rented twice from there this month, and its damned scary seeing planes 45 feet above that garage.

It would be cheaper for SAN to condemn some land and fill some land in and build another runway than to build a very annoying and out of the way airport like they are talking about. DEN thankfully quashed lots of talk about new mega airports in the boonies. McCain wanted (his contractor buddies) to build a mega airport 40 miles south of Phoenix and about 50 north of Tuscon, one that everyone in AZ could hate. The DEN disaster prevented that.