Working women more likely to divorce

Telegraph ^ | 7/11/05 | Sarah Womack

[Crackingham]

Women working full-time are 29 per cent more likely to get divorced than those who stay at home and raise children. Research to be published this week in the European Sociological Review finds that the probability of divorce is in direct correlation to the number of hours a woman worked.

Marilyn Stowe, a female divorce lawyer, suggested that working women had the economic freedom to consider life beyond marriage.

She added that they had greater confidence in their ability to make new friends and find new partners. "You suggest going out to work to a woman who has been at home for 15 years and their response is often that of horror," she said. With both partners increasingly going out to work, the findings go some way to explain the country's rising divorce rate.

[Free Baptist]

Right! I agree. I was giving an answer to someone who seemed to be stating that being in an urban area prevented self-initiative and going after something with that "GUMPTION." I actually grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. I was an urban and a suburban boy. I learned to be tenacious about life, but to trust God and give Him the glory very young. Dad taught us to work and work hard, and save our money, and not follow trends. It seemed that so many young people (1960s, early 1970s) were wasting their money or their parents' money on the trend-setting junk, and we were taught never to do that. I hung on to that teaching.

And Dad taught us also that when we were going after things that were good, clean, moral and healthy, that even the final (discouraging) words of officials didn't always have to be the last word. We went taught to be law breakers or anarchists, but we were taught to push and buck just a little (politely), just to make sure someones restrictions on us were legitimate and not just their opinion, or something that couldn't be changed.

Dad taught us to look at the things that employers look for when they hire people. Dress like the boss (if reasonable), and watch the gig line. Shine the shoes, and first, wear shoes that can be shined! He taught us that in fashion trends, 90% of our friends and classmates were wrong and wasteful...don't ridicule them for it...just don't follow them.

We never saw Dad drink liquor or spend time with those who do. Mom knew when to expect Dad home, and he showed up, or made a phone call home. Mom worked part-time for Hunts Canary when we were in elementary school, but was always home when we got home. She came looking for us if we didn't come right home. We knew which houses to go to if there was trouble. Mom and Dad made it their business to know face-to-face the parents of any and all other young people with whom we made friends and wanted to spend time.

I served 6-1/2 years in the Air Force (enlisted at age 17 - was proud that my dad had served in the Army). Married a Missouri farm girl who never argued with her father about anything! She knew how to work and work hard, and she knew she wanted a man who would provide for her, and she wanted children and to raise them up herself at home. She had also been taught not to follow popular trends. She is good at math and accounting, and for 30 years she has managed the money in our home and has done the tax paperwork for us herself every year. And our children think that she can walk on water and slice cherry cheese cake out of the moon.

We have a 26 year-old daughter who was born with severe water on the brain -- not expected to live for four days! she lived, and learned to walk, and now is a sweet young woman who excels us all in math. the doctors tried to get us to give her up and forget she was even born! They called her "USELESS" when she was three weeks old. Miss "Useless" now plays the piano and several stringed instruments very well, sings, beats us all in Scrabble, writes some of the greatest Christian poetry that will ever find its way on to paper.

GUMPTION! Well, GOD, then gumption. Praise the lovely Name of Jesus. But the one who lives in the urban area certainly can make it if he REFUSES to believe that he can't. And he might try prayer, too.

[k2blader]

"Hat chick"?? ..I am such a country bumpkin..

[durasell]

Hat chick is old time expression that is rarely used anymore...it's the hat check girl (now the coat check girl) who sits in a little booth and takes your coat in exchange for a little numbered tag. Not to belabor the point, but hat chicks typically came in three varieties:

A)The girlfriend of the married club or restaurant owner who didn't feel as if she had to work terribly hard, given her esteemed position in the world and all that.

B)Someone just starting out in the business who the management wanted to check out before promoting to waitress. Or keep on ice until a waitress job opened up.

C)A waitress who could no longer do the work.

It is a good rule of thumb never, ever to be mean to a hat chick (or anyone else in a restaurant). You have no idea what people are capable of doing to your food behind the closed doors of a kitchen. Trust me, they will perform atrocities on your meal and serve it to you with a smile.

[durasell]

We need more people like you in this country. Really.

[KneelBeforeZod]

one of my mom's real estate clients got divorced. his wife had never worked, so the ruling was that he had to pay alimony and child support and for a place for his ex and kid to live.

doh!

[Rca2000]

I should respond to this, and I should respond to the other post about "conservative men viewing their women as inferior", that was posted today.

But, I wont. I will plead the 5th amendment. I have already "rocked too many boats ", today, with my family.

Want to know how?

In the first instance, My sister was telling my cousin how me and her had seen "war of the worlds"(the remake), last night. I thought It was asomewhat Pi$$-poor movie, and I DID catch the anti-war undertones, and "broken family", message. However, that is NOT why I think it is a bad movie, I just felt that in the ORIGINAL, the plot was a LOT better, and while the special effects were indeed good in this one, it DRAGGED on, in the middle, and was VERY slow-paced in parts.

Nonetheless, after my sister told my cousin that we had seen WOTW, my cousin responded that she had seen "Monster in Law", the movie with Jane Fonda. Well, that set me off, and I said, "I would NOT go to see that, or any movie with Jane Fonda in it, even if you PAID me to go there, if I had to admit doing so, to people I talk with and see(including you all here, on FR) . Why, she asked, and I reminded her of "Hanoi Jane", and her escapades, and she responded "she is a CHRISTIAN. Well, I could NOT let that one slide, SO I said, you CANNOT be a Christian, and be involved with the things she is, like the Vagina Monologues, NOW, Vagina's vote, and so on". "you don;'t know her heart, was the response I got, and I said" I saw that interview she did a few years ago, and Jane did NOT talk about a Christian experience, she spoke about "finding the power in ourselves", and so on.

Seeing tensions rising, my sister spoke up, changing the subject about lunch, and the talk between us ended. But my cousin was MIFFED at me.

Then, at lunch, we were with my Aunt, and she began speaking about how her church had gotten a new pastor. (this is a methodist church, that she attends). The new pastor is a Black woman, and I spoke up and asked"what does she believe, about things"?( I do NOT care, that it is a woman, really, what matters is WHAT DOES SHE BELIEVE?) My aunt responded"she is a good Christian". I then asked, "OK how does she feel about moral issues, like Gay marriage, abortion, Christians praying in public", and IMMEDIATELY, my cousin spoke up to interrupt me, and changed the subject, and it was obvious that my aunt was TICKED, that I would have the audacity to ask "how a new pastor felt about moral issues. I guess as long as a pastor can lead a good choir, sing a couple of worship songs, and get a good tithe, and talk about God's love, one should NOT dare to question how the leader feels about "controversial issues". (I did not go on, with the SECOND part of that question, to my Aunt, which was that the Methodist Church is rumored to be considering allowing Gay marriages and so on. )

SO, after all of that, I do not feel that I need the typical insults tossed at me, that I get, on threads like this, even threats, from other FReepers. All I will say is:

I would NOT have a problem, with a wife working, as LONG as there were no pre-school age children in the household. I would find a way to provide well enough in such a case, that my wife did not need to work, or could work at home, if she desired to do so. I would NOT want my children, if I had any, to be raised in a daycare, and would want my wife to be home with them until they were of school age, when they would then be in a Christian school. After that, I would not mind a wife working, or if there were no children, then I would not mind it at all, as long as it did not cause a strain between us. If this belief is considered as misogynist, then so be it. I have seen MANY children RUINED in daycares and would NOT want that, for any children of mine.

[RipSawyer]

You repeat a cliche situation which is far from my own experience, I work 12 hours and come home to a wife who is vegged out in front of the TV and makes not one move to get me so much as a glass of water but instantly commences to prattle endlessly about the events of her day while showing minimal interest in whatever might have happened during mine. I love her but I am beginning to wonder why.

[linkinpunk]

Alternate headline:

"Women Without Money More Likely to Stay in Abusive Relationships"

Is that news to anyone?

[walden]

To at least some degree this is a chicken/egg question as to which causes which. I was at home with small children but unhappy in my marriage and my professional skills were progressively getting more stale-- that is a nerve-wracking situation. So I went back to work. What I discovered when I did that was that it wasn't just my imagination that my husband was colossally self-centered and uninterested in the happiness of his family-- I knew he didn't care much about me, but didn't realize until I really needed his help caring for our children that he didn't care much about them either.

When I realized that he wasn't going to change, I divorced him. Having a good job with a good income of my own did make that easier.

[Fido969]

Bad, bad divorcing men. Heroic divorcing women.

Isn't this what these divorcing women are being told by the hate men support groups, and the hate men self improvement books?

Yeah, led by the dickless Dr. Phil.

[MortMan]

Marilyn Stowe, a female divorce lawyer (and therefore a working woman), suggested that working women had the economic freedom to consider life beyond marriage.

I added the note above to point out that she is not a disinterested bystander. The number of hours worked also decreases the amount of time (and the related energy) expended in integrating the family. The financial independence is part of it, but so is the separateness generated from the dual career path, IMO.

I's be interested in hearing other perspectives, though... I'm still on my first wife, who works a lot harder than I do homeschooling our kids!

[Aquinasfan]

She added that they had greater confidence in their ability to make new friends and find new partners.

We're talking about adultery here, right?

I need a PC-to-English translation device.

[F16Fighter]

"The biggest thing that determines if someone is going to stray from the marriage isn't morality, it's circumstance and opportunity. That's why 'trust' is often raised unwisely - most people who cheat were trustworthy, BEFORE they cheated."

Working in an environment with many people or with the general public is going to provide more than ample opportunity to stray or "cheat" for those who are either insecure or with overactive libidos.

Imo, it is "morality"; a satisfaction and security within that relationship; and respect for the relationship that prevents such behavior.

"Basically, when someone says 'don't you trust me,' they really should be saying 'trust me to not put myself in that circumstance and be open to that opportunity.'"

OR, they're saying, "I respect our relationship too much to breech our trust" -- even if Catherine Zeta-Jones hits on me ;-)

[xzins]

Early 20th century working class neighborhoods in our area of German roots were substantial houses. Replacing/renovating them today would cost a fortune.

If I am an employer who needs 10 workers and 20 apply for a job, I am in a better negotiating position than if 8 apply. Flooding the labor market with extra workers causes a predictable market response. The bids for the services of the workers will drop.

[arasina]

Working in an environment with many people or with the general public is going to provide more than ample opportunity to stray or "cheat" for those who are either insecure or with overactive libidos.

Imo, it is "morality"; a satisfaction and security within that relationship; and respect for the relationship that prevents such behavior.

Don't forget that SOME of that relationship security is a result of a passionate compatibility of those 'overactive' libidos. :^P

[krb]

No way...if it came down to that then I agree with the other poster, there is no relationship anyway.

I think these women in the study are simply fishing for a bigger better deal. You meet those men in certain workplaces.

I bet you could fund a study that shows that guys who work around a lot of younger, pretty, non-nagging women get divorced at a higher rate too. You meet those women in certain workplaces.

[F16Fighter]

"Don't forget that SOME of that relationship security is a result of a passionate compatibility of those 'overactive' libidos."

True, "some" of that "relationship security" is a result of the "satisfaction" quotient...

But then in a successful and secure relationship, there's also the matter of being on the same wave-length as to exactly what a "commitment" means, shared values, and to what extent the parameters are acceptable in the face of adversity, indifference, or overindulgence.

Therein lies the real challenge.

[chris1]

Don't listen. There are some on this board that are utterly not in touch with reality.

[shhrubbery!]

Working women often don't care as much about their children as do women who sacrifice to stay home and raise their children.

I see you're getting flamed for that comment. (No surprise -- suggesting that a mother doesn't care enough about her children strikes at her very quick.)

But you're right.

Studies of mother/child attachment have shown that working mothers do not develop the same kind of bond with their children as do stay-at-home mothers.

The phenomenon of the working mother (one who works outside the home) has resulted in "attachment" disorders in children becoming common. By their teen years, these unattached children are far more likely to use drugs, become sexually promiscuous, break assorted laws and be generally angry and defiant toward their parents.

In extreme cases you get Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris -- both "unattached" boys whose mothers worked, and who were put in day care as small children. (Which, we now know, Klebold hated so much that he wrote a poem called something like "Daycare from Hell.")

Obviously not all stay-at-home moms are great. But it's almost guaranteed: If you're a mom who works full-time from your child's infancy, that your child is going to have behavior problems later.

I know that will offend working moms, but it's the truth. Look around you at all the kids doped up on medication, even in elementary school; at all the teenagers incarcerated in some kind of rehab center; at all the teen suicide and drug use. All of these things are vastly more common now than they were 40 years ago, before masses of mothers became "working mothers."

[arasina]

You're such a rational and reasoned thinker. I admire that.