Krauthammer: The Stakes After Gaza

New York Daily News ^ | 8/26/05 | Charles Krauthammer

[StoneGiant]

The Stakes After Gaza

By Charles Krauthammer


The world has noted — though it will not credit, and will soon forget — those deeply moving scenes of the Israeli evacuation of Gaza: the discipline and self-control of the Israeli army; the cohesion of a society torn over policy but determined to follow the dictates of democracy; and the deep, abiding attachment of Israelis to every inch of soil they have reclaimed from sand and swamp.


But there was one detail of the evacuation that went little noticed: the manner of the evacuation of the great menorah from the last synagogue of the last settlement to be evacuated, Netzarim. This menorah is not the nine-branched Hanukah thingy that shows up on an equal-time basis by the shopping-mall reindeer display at Christmas time. It is the seven-branched candelabra — like the one that was in the ancient temple in Jerusalem and is today the official seal of the state of Israel.






The Gaza menorah was carried off in a very remarkable and significant way, perched on a horizontal rod borne on the shoulders of men walking one behind the other.


Seen in profile, that image has a shocking familiarity. If you go to the eastern entrance of the Roman forum today, you will see the huge triumphal Arch of Titus erected in the year 81 to commemorate the conquest of the Jews and the destruction of the Jewish state — Judea — in the year 70. One of the friezes shows the seven-branched menorah being carried out of the temple in Jerusalem — as booty and symbol of the conquest of Judea — perched on a long horizontal staff borne by Roman soldiers walking one behind the other.


No one steeped in Jewish history could fail to see the intended resemblance. The intended message was that the Gaza evacuation was a replay of the Roman conquest — made all the more cruel and ironic because this time it was carried out by fellow Jews.


In my view, the religious messianists who are saying this are totally wrong in their strategic assessment. Gaza was a necessary retreat in order to hold higher, more defensible and more critical ground elsewhere.


Nonetheless, the parallel images carried an unintended truth. It is not the Gaza withdrawal itself but what follows that could lead to another and final extinction of Jewish independence, this time not just for 2,000 years but forever.


What follows is the world saying, almost in unison, that the Gaza evacuation is just the beginning of a total Israeli retreat, one Dunkirk to be followed by many more. What follows is Condoleezza Rice declaring that "it cannot be Gaza only," a thrilling encouragement to the Palestinians jeering the Israeli withdrawal with chants of "Gaza today, Jerusalem tomorrow."


Is this what the Bush administration wants? More unilateral concessions to an implacable enemy whose "moderate" leader, Mahmoud Abbas, declares that "we will not rest until they leave from all our land" — when Palestinian maps show "our land" as nothing less than all of British Palestine with Israel totally eradicated?


This is a prescription for Israel's suicide. Or rather murder, because the Israelis are not prepared to march blindly into further unrequited concessions. The final concession will be getting into boats and sailing back to where?


Poland?


In his policy-setting Rose Garden speech of June 2002, President Bush explicitly endorsed a Palestinian state and said that to achieve it, the next step was up to the Palestinians. Since then the only thing the Palestinians have done is to bury Yasser Arafat, an act of reverence but not exactly an initiative.


In the interim, the Israelis have withdrawn from Gaza, destroyed four West Bank settlements to create geographic contiguity for Palestinian territory in the northern West Bank, and once again repeated their support of a Palestinian state. The Palestinian response has been Katyusha rockets into Sderot, promises of renewed terrorism and chants for total victory.


The Arabs are a great people. They have 21 states stretching from the Atlantic to the frontier of Persia. They will soon have a 22nd state called Palestine. The only question is whether its establishment will be on the grave of the world's only Jewish state.


What is at stake is whether the world, led by the United States, will demand Arab acceptance of that single Jewish state, or whether the United States will continue to push Israel from one concession to another until one day another arch is erected, this time in Jerusalem itself, commemorating the destruction of history's third and last Jewish commonwealth.

[American in Israel]

By the way, have you decided to share how you would handle the birth rate of Jews yet?

Or come up with an Idea how the Arabs could birth a thousand kids a family without illegal immigration?

Tell me, if Arabs have a thousand dollars a year to buy land with, but land is not for sale because it "under occupation", how did they build a million person city in Gaza?

Simple, they are occupiers. But the Jews of Gaza bought that land, and have the deeds to prove it. Seems to me if you buy land, build houses on it, have a Nation declared around you to boot with the UN's blessings, you own that land three times over!

The Arabs moved into a country that was not their own, and built houses on land they did not buy and then kill that country's citizens to demand their houses that they built as their new homeland, but some how in your topsy-turvy world you are claiming the Jews are the offenders, not the Arab League.

You can ignore bloody murder, and any level of hypocracy to do it too.

You are a strange man. Ever figure out what drives your hatred for the innocent, as you cheer on the most blood thirsty killers in modern history? It's simply satanic.

[flaglady47]

Tis is part of a post I had on another thread, but it seems appropriate here as well:

Do you really think that anyone in the "world" will care that you exposed this double standard? Of course not. They will demand more concessions by Israel, and will continue to condemn her, in spite of anyone pointing out the double standard.

Israel has been pointing out double standards for years now. Fat lot of good it has done. It just invites more attacks and requests for concessions from her. Hence Condi Rice, as the last settler was being dragged out of Gaza, demands, in the name of Bush, more concessions by Israel and wants new meetings to push for more adherence to the Oslo Accords (the accords being a death sentence for Israel if adhered to).

[American in Israel]

robert never cares about Arab killings, occupations, growth or land deeds. Robert does not care about facts either. You can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is wrong on a point, with charts, graphs, and eye witness stories and the next day he will spout the same old lies to a different audience.

I just use his outragous statements as a soap box to prove him a liar because I like poking trolls with sharp sticks. But a conversation is impossible, he will ignore any questions that he cannot convert into slander. I think he is a very sick man, possesed with a hatred even he does not understand. Kinda like a fat tomato worm with a wasp larva living inside.

[American in Israel]

Indeed, Israel has proven its innocence and nobody cares, simply because in the world leadership, nobody is innocent.

As it is written, the whole world will be aligned against Israel in the end, and, well, here we are.

[American in Israel]

--"Lets see you post the figures for the Arab growth in those same towns!"

-Which towns would those be? I mentioned no towns.

Ok, let me rephrase that for you:
Lets see you post the figures for the Arab growth in those same areas!

Now can you figure out what I said oh weasel worded one?

My bet is now that you cannot dodge the bullet with a bluff, you will just run and hide like usual. It is so entertaining trying to speak with a man who is disingenuous. Like most Terror supporters, you lie a lot, mostly to yourself. Face it, your hatred based on race (called bigotry in the dictionary), is not based on facts, but on fantasy. Sick, evil, twisted fantasys...

[American in Israel]

And the Israeli "settlers" in the West Bank are what -- legal immigrants?

How did the Arabs from Arabia get the Land of Hebron from the Hebrews ya think?

Do I sense just a tiny bit of Hypocracy from the Trans-Jordanites demanding the West Bank, seeing that their State Charter is founded on them owning the land EAST of the Jordan, and Israel owning the land WEST of the Jordan? Gee, layers of hypocracy here. But don't let that bother you. It's a Muslim thing. Reality is not observed, it is defined by Islam. I think other cultures call it brain washing. Isn't it interesting that Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia etc were all formed at the same time as Israel. They have no more legal right to exist than Israel does. But that never stopped the hatred or the demands for Israel's share of the old Ottoman empire. I am sure you can relate, you operate the same way. If Jews are going to build a city, where else but in Israel? Duhhhh.

[American in Israel]

And the Israeli "settlers" in the West Bank are what -- legal immigrants?

Can you find a law against it anywhere? You assume Jews living there are illegal, but there are no laws against Jews living there, just politics. However, it is illegal for Syrians, or Egyptians, or Saudi's or Iranians to live there.

But they do, in droves. Lets hear you protest that. (not holding my breath)

[American in Israel]

You say so many lies in once sentance, it takes a dozen posts to address them all!

[Naomi4]

Victor Davis Hanson wrote about the disease of anti-Semitism a couple of months ago. He concluded it was irrational to the point of insanity. The article is somewhere in the Free Republic archives.

It is sad but an undeniable fact that the people who spout this verbal evil enable the murder of innocents.

[robertpaulsen]

"You listed three areas, and then said you did not."

What three areas? My post dealt with Krauthammer's misleading comment about Israel destroying four West Bank settlements -- misleading in that it gives one the impression that Israel is reducing its presence in the West Bank when just the opposite is true.

That's it. That's all I was commenting on. Period.

Then you come along with some incomprehensible babbling question, "And your solution for birth in Jews is what?", followed by Arab women with six breasts having 30 kids and "Don't Jews have the right to have children?" nonsense.

I hope you don't expect me to take you seriously. You have no idea what you're talking about.

"But by International Law the West Bank IS Israel.

Oh baloney. You couldn't cite the international law if you were paid to do so.

It is conquered territory, yes. It is occupied territory, yes. It is disputed territory, yes. It is not Israel.

"By moral law, seeing they captured it back from Jordan when Jordan attacked again, it is Israel's."

By moral law? WTF?

"And by Biblical historical law it is Israel's as the "West Bank" is where Abraham stood when God told him the land was his."

Oh, well, there you are. Of course. I mean, if you're sure God said so, then, well, I guess it is, huh? That's that. End of story.

(Hey, instead of telling Abraham, maybe God should have told the Arabs that the land was Abrahams. Big mistake.)

[robertpaulsen]

"But the Jews of Gaza bought that land"

If they bought it before 1967, I say it's theirs and they should be allowed to stay if they wish.

If they bought it after 1967, tough luck. Ditto the West Bank.

[robertpaulsen]

"Lets see you post the figures for the Arab growth in those same areas!"

Who ... cares?!? The Arabs have every right to be there -- the Israeli civilians do not. Despite what God said to Abraham.

"you will just run and hide like usual. It is so entertaining trying to speak with a man who is disingenuous. Like most Terror supporters, you lie a lot, mostly to yourself. Face it, your hatred based on race (called bigotry in the dictionary), is not based on facts, but on fantasy. Sick, evil, twisted fantasys..."

Cool it with the pushing, the prodding, the poking, the name calling ... once more, and I'll reference every single one of your chicken-$hit posts to the moderators. Back-to-back, it's quite a collection, and very obvious that your sole intention is to simply troll to get a reaction.

Make your point and then just STFU.

[American in Israel]

Who ... cares?!? The Arabs have every right to be there -- the Israeli civilians do not. Despite what God said to Abraham.

Why do the Arabs have the right to be there? They do not come from this country, they do not buy land when they build and do it with out the permits that Israeli's must have. They do not pay taxes, and they kill people to boot. Murder is illegal here you know. They are moving, "settling", in land that is contested, not owned by them. But somehow you insist that the Jews, who do have a Nation, and have this land within their National borders, and have full legal right to live there, as do ARABS WHO COME FROM HERE and are NOT settlers, have the right to live.

You strip away the full legal rights of the Israeli's while giving the rights to illegal immigrants who do not just squat on the land but commit mass murders against the Citizens of the Nation, both Arab and Jew alike. I wonder if you complain about illegal immigrants on other threads? At least the ones in the states mostly are just looking for work not blood.

And of course I am trying to get a reaction. I fully admit it. I was goaded into doing that because of your long track record of saying some outrageous lie, or repeating some egregious slander from the Jihadi against innocent people and when people call you on it you just ignore them and go slander some more against some newbie that does not know your tricks. I am fed up with your slander and run tactics. If you have a point, please feel free to make it, but be prepared to defend it on the threads that you smear.

I go to a lot of effort to refute the crap you are slinging with outside references and examples or links to other pages, at least you could respond, and, gasp, perhaps even learn something!

This site is not here for you to slander and run, that is just simple bigotry. It is here to discuss issues and even learn from one another. Think about it some. You actually are quite wrong most of the times that you are repeating this anti-Jew garbage. I happen to live here and can clearly see that. Do you realize that most posters write me and tell me to just ignore you that you are full of it and not worth bothering with?

The point is this, you can sharpen your sword against me, ("as steel sharpens steel, so one brother sharpens another"), by learning what you say that is right so that you hit the mark, or you can keep this foolish slime and run tactic, that is so embarrassing to you and us.

Seriously, the Jews do not have it all right, they are just people too. But when you accuse them of so many things that are down right biased and obviously in error, it shows, and discredits you badly.

As your goal is so clearly anti-Israel, at least get it right! Frankly I am anti-Islam. But they are an easy target. Jews are much harder to attack because they simply have a much higher moral standard than the rest of the world.

We can agree to disagree and be friends here, or you can continue your slander and run. Either way I think I will be a winner. Because I will continue to point out your errors, even if it takes me twenty posts to do it. Its a duty thing, not a get the slimer thing. And I don't think the moderators care much as there is no limit on posts. As long as I stick to topic, and quote and address an issue on your posts each time, it is pretty clear that I am not about get the Robby, but about disproving your points, one after another, after another time after time after time, with references and proofs and examples, something you should try before you post. It would cut back my workload immensely.

[American in Israel]

A lot of that land was purchased before 1948 by the Rothschilds to help build the new State. That is one of the reasons I am so offended by Sharons land grab, he clearly did not have the right to take that land without compensation that was equal to the value of the land BEFORE he condemned it AGAINST the vote of the people, and the vote of his cabinet.

Sharons actions were clearly criminal, and nobody has the right to give away a Nations land against the will of the majority of the people. He gave away the futures of many generations for nothing but a legacy. More like infamy.

Just like the Golon, Israel has fully legal deeds to a lot of land in Gaza. If the Arabs wanted it, they could have just bought it, but they decided to kill for it.

For that they should be killed, not rewarded by handing them the prize. Now we will get massive killing for more land until either the last Jew dies or the last Arab.

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like non Islamic Arabs a lot. They are easier to like than Jews. But this land transfer is the worst thing that could have been done to the innocent Arabs. The Jihad was stalling out, now it is redoubled in strength and the ultimate loser's are the Arabs.

If we had held them to providing health care, and roads, and actually distributing the AID we send them, they would now be living at a much higher standard than Israel. But all we did is just pour money into the Jihadi leaders hands and turn away when it was pointed out that they use the money to oppress the people and buy weapons.

It is MY tax dollars that are not only killing Jews over here, but enslaving honest Arabs.

Did you know there are more Palestinians from Palestine in South America than in Palestine now? The were driven out by all the Jihadi that poured in to bathe in the gravy train we provided over here.

This is a money for Jihadi nightmare, not Nation building by our brainless State Department. Simply because they do not responsibly handle our tax money. They just give it away with no accountability to every little petty gang leader over here and walk away.

[American in Israel]

Well Israel destroyed some west bank settlements, ones that did not have building permits. However the population did grow, at about 10% of the rate that the population grew in Arabs.

My point about birth rate was to show that the population growth was so beyond mathematical possibility of a birth rate that it is clearly immigration that is causing it. Demographs show that 80% of Palestinians have parents from other countrys. That is an 80% illegal immigration rate.

As for International law, in the early 1900's when Syria and Lebanon and most of the Arab States were created by the British mandate, so was Israel and it not only included the West Bank but the East Bank too. The Arabs took the land then demanded the Jewish land too. The British then re-wrote the mandate for Israel, which by the way was not exactly legal to do, and ceeded 83 percent of Israel over to the Arabs in a land for peace deal that created yet another Arab State, Jordan. This gave the land one the east bank of the jordan river to Trans-Jordan, and the west bank of the jordan river to Israel. That was the 1927 mandate. As it was the last treaty to be signed by all parties it is the standing treaty. By all legal standards, Israel owns the West Bank. But just like the second admendment of the constitution can be ignored by lawyers and the way The govenment shall not infringe on the right of religion is interpreted to read that Government shall make Christianity illegal for Humanists, law is ignored by those with an agenda, and lawyers robes.

So you see, twice now, by international legal standards the West Bank has been given to Israel. They have clear land title BY INTERNATIONAL LAW, that I have just quoted.

Yes, the destruction of Israel is the biggest con job in history, and you have been sucked in bigtime. If you do not believe that the UN has the right to dictate to the United States our enviromental laws, why do you believe that the UN has the right to dictate to Israel its borders?

Isn't that just a teensy bit of a double standard to match YOUR agenda?

[robertpaulsen]

"I go to a lot of effort to refute the crap you are slinging with outside"

Bull! You go to a lot of effort to goad me into responding to nonsense.

This thread is an excellent example. My post #5 dealt with facts -- the Israeli presence in the West Bank is increasing.

Now, look at all of your irrelevant, goading, off-topic, nonsensical, and inane posts in response to mine.

That's refuting?

You just don't like the facts. You don't like me pointing them out. You can't refute them. So, you simply call them "slander", "bigotry", and "anti-Jew garbage".

That's childish.

[robertpaulsen]

"This gave the land one the east bank of the jordan river to Trans-Jordan, and the west bank of the jordan river to Israel the Palestinian Jews and the Palestinian Arabs."

They fought, the British threw up their hands and turned the matter over to the UN.

UN 181 set the borders of Israel and Palestine. Israel accepted those borders. So stop lying about the West Bank.

[American in Israel]

Sorry, guy, but the UN is the Unwanted Nobody's and do not have the right to make or change international law. They can make resolutions till the cows come home, and you can cling to them because it says what you want, but it is not international law.

The treaty's that created Jordan either stand or they do not. If they stand, Israel owns the West Bank, despite the Jordanians invading and taking that land in the 48 war in violation of their own charter.

If it does not stand, Israel owns Jordan, or the East Bank too. So you cannot have it both ways, and always against the Jews no matter how much you hate them.

If Israel does not own the land because they captured it from Jordan, then why does Jordan own the land because they captured it from Israel?

I am not lying, check it out before you sling your insults. I figure you are not lying this time, you don't know what you are talking about.

As usual.

[American in Israel]

Now, look at all of your irrelevant, goading, off-topic, nonsensical, and inane posts in response to mine.

That's refuting?

Ok Robert, I guess you missed my post on that subject the last five times I asked, so I will ask again.

This is on topic, and addressing your issue.

Please post the figures that show the Arab expansion in the same time frame. Note that the Arab population is 1.5 Million or so they claim, and the Jewish population is 5.5 million. This means, by natural growth, the Jewish population should grow by over three times the rate of the Arab population in any given area.

You will find, if you bother to ever answer a direct question, that my post and question was not slander, or smoke and mirrors, but is exactly to the point.

I tend to do that.

In Hebron alone, were there were Jews living in the city on their land for the last 3000 years the population of Arabs grew by over a hundred times the population of the Jews.

This is called occupation. It is called Settlers, and it is Illegal in a "contested" zone.

But you only want the rules to apply to the Jews, not the Arabs that are the clear violators of International Law against occupation. The law states in occupied zones that you cannot use population displacement to push out the inhabitants that were in place when you occupy.

What do you call the Ethnic Cleansing of GAZA? Many Gaza farms were in place BEFORE Israel was even a Nation. Therefore, by International law the Arab League is guilty not only of Occupation, but Ethnic Cleansing, in addition to War Crimes and Genocide.

(This Robert, is refuting.)

One day, when Justice is done, those Nations will pay for their crimes, along with their supporters. Perhaps not in a court of man, but certainly in the Courts of the Almighty God. Justice is already being dealt out, much more is to come. No matter how much you love them, the Palestinians are doomed, for the course of action they took leads to their complete destruction. I would show you in the Bible where that is written, but you don't look up a single reference I have ever given you so why bother.

You have a date in that court by the way, for a man is judged by his every word. And, which side of the fence he stands on with God.

[robertpaulsen]

"The treaty's that created Jordan either stand or they do not. If they stand, Israel owns the West Bank,"

Here's the bottom line. If you want me to take you seriously, then reference the treaty and the part that gives the West Bank to Israel.

There is no treaty like that. None. You have nothing.

Back in 1923 or thereabouts, an area called Palestine was created west of the Jordan river. It was shared by Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs. Shared. Got it?

They couldn't decide on how to split the land -- the UN did it for them with UN 181.

ISRAEL ACCEPTED 181. 181 DID NOT INCLUDE THE WEST BANK.

Now, put up or shut up with your "treaty". I will not debate your unsupported comments any longer.