Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

Times (UK) ^ | October 05, 2005 | Ruth Gledhill

[MeanWestTexan]

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true. The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

[ichabod1]

The Bible is inerrant. That is what the Church teaches. But it is not literally true. This is a constant teaching of the Church. The Bible does not have to be literal to be true.

This gets me thinking a couple of things:

1) The Bible isn't one definitive book or even canon of books. When ever someone starts talking about the "Bible" being always right my first question is, which one? Which version? Which translation? Which edition? Translated from what language? Translated directly or translated from a translation? Is it something believed to be original text or notes added later? If so, who added the notes and why?

2) There are a large number of seeming paradoxes and inconsistencies in the Bible. The one that always eats me up is whether we truly have free will or whether God is directing things behind the scenes and things will work out in His plan no matter what we do. Like Josephs brothers who do the most vile, vicious crimes unto him, but in the end, all is well because God was using them as an instrument.

So, no. I don't think you can just quote a little scripture that seems to validate a given point and fall back on the "God Said It, That Settles It" defense. If that's what they mean, I agree wholeheartedly.

One of the strengths of the RCC is to have a single interpretation of Scripture. Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture (YOPIOS) is no foundation at all.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The scripture you quoted later in your post was deemed "God's word" by people just like these bishops. My question, which nobody has been able to answer, is this: how do we know that those who canonized the Bible didn't "have absolutely no way of knowing" as you put it?

G-d dictated the Torah to Moses letter for letter, and Moses wrote it down.

The Prophets were written under the influence of Prophetic visions, which is a lower form of revelation than the Torah.

The Ketuvim were written under Ruach HaQodesh, which is lower still.

Then chr*stianity came along and mucked everything up, which causes people like you to be smart-asses.

The authentic Bible was canonized by the Men of the Great Assembly ('Anshei-HaKenesset HaGedolah) and not by any bishops of any church. Everything else is an imposition.

[ichabod1]

We don't even know who decided which books would be in the Bible, but we take it on the word of our parents and pastors that the Bible is God's word.

Heh. Shouldn't all Protestants be regularly reminded that it was the Roman Catholic Church that decided what would and wouldn't be included in the Canon? Of course the Prosties made some changes and dropped a few books.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Actually, Protestants have the harder time making their case, because as one convert to Catholicism points out, nowhere in Scripture is it written, "Sola scriptura." Also, as John Donne remarks in one of his sermons, the first Christians had to ask the Jews, "Which books were the scriptures?"

The thing is, "sola scriptura" and Biblical literalism are two separate things. I am what you would call a Biblical literalist but I don't accept sola scriptura. Unfortunately, many Catholic/Orthodox anti-literalists like to obfuscate the difference between the two.

[Zionist Conspirator]

"The Bible is inerrant. That is what the Church teaches. But it is not literally true."

Fake but accurate?

Lol! You have won the prize!

[null and void]

I see. So 5 kids, one day, that give a gestation period of what? Four hours?

[Zionist Conspirator]

I never realized my belief in God and his word was an embarrassment to Christianity. Somehow tho, I don't think that Jesus is embarrassed that I believe the word of God is truth.

It is. Chr*stianity doesn't want people like you or me. Believe me, I've been there, and it ain't just the Catholic Church, pal. All the ancient churches are redneck-bashers.

I advise you to at least consider the claims of Torah. And among traditional Orthodox Jews and Noachides you won't find yourself an embarrassment at all.

[Zionist Conspirator]

One thing I've never understood about Genesis is how there could be morning and evening if the sun wasn't created until the fourth day. For that matter, how could there be days before the sun was created, since a day is one revolution of the earth around the sun? This is one of the reasons I don't think it could be six literal days.

Actually, RaSh"I (in his comment on the verse in Genesis 2 on "the day G-d created Heaven and earth") says that actually everything was created at once and then individuated on the various days. However, in his comment on Genesis 1:1 he says the first thing created was the waters. But at any rate, the light created on Day One was not the light of the sun but the supernal spiritual light which is reserved for the righteous.

I don't understand why six "days" without a sun (during a period when everything was being created and which is unlike any time after) is a problem. That's like asking where G-d stood when He created the world.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The mass is all Biblical.

And since the Bible isn't literally true, neither is the mass, right?

[Zionist Conspirator]

I'm grateful for your stance, but you are a distinct minority among Catholics. Just take a look at what your co-religionists are saying on the subject.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The Hebrew word yom, translated as day, has three literal meanings - a 12 hour period, a 24 hour period, and a long indeterminate time. It would be a literal translation to say that the events in Ge 1 took place over six long epochs - notice there is no ending mentioned of the seventh, which we're in...

We are not in "the seventh day." The seventh day of Genesis 1/2 was the first Shabbat (Adam and Eve had been created on Day Six). Unfortunately they sinned and were expelled from Gan `Eiden before they got to experience Shabbat there.

[Zionist Conspirator]

When did Christ die?

Since your "Chr*st" isn't in the Bible, what does that have to do with anything?

[Zionist Conspirator]

Great, so let me understand you. A few bishops make a statement such as this, and ALL Catholics are branded by you as heritics? ALL Catholics feel the way they do? ALL Catholics are led by several obscure bishops?

A few Catholic bishops? Look at your fellow Catholics on this thread lauding and endorsing their statement. It is hardly bigotry to point out that the vast majority of Catholics (at least today) are very uncomfortable with the literal message of the Bible.

And btw, why is it that Southern Baptist preachers are never shooting their mouths off and making fools of themselves like this?

[porkchops 4 mahound]

Gee, do ya think, maybe, that most Protestants understand fully how the RCC constructed the Cannons of it's church, because our spiritual ancestors spent too much blood, sweat, and tears, CHANGING it?

"Of course the Prosties made some changes and dropped a few books."

You ignorant ponce.

[porkchops 4 mahound]

You are frikkin insane.

But, I guess it's working for you?

I mean, you sure seem like "a happy camper".

NOT.

[muir_redwoods]

"The Bible is literally true from cover to cover."

So bats are fowls?

Leviticus chapter 11

[Zionist Conspirator]

Leo XIII's pronouncement in this regard could not have anticipated historical criticism, which was recognized as a valid biblical research method by Pius XII.

Ah, so Catholics used to interpret the Bible literally until "they knew better?" Wow. So Catholic doctrine is constantly changing.

BTW, did you know that the Twelve Apostles are actually mythological representations of the months of the year? If you don't agree with that now I'm sure one day you will.

[Zionist Conspirator]

You are confusing believing in God and the Bible with idolizing a book and interpreting everything in it literally without thinking.

Did you know that a decaying Torah Scroll has to be ritually buried in a Jewish cemetery near the grave of a pious sage?

Did you know the laws for copying a Torah Scroll are complicated beyond your knowledge to insure that every single letter is written as Moses wrote it?

Perhaps that's "idolizing a book" to you.

[DesScorp]

This isn't "the Catholic Church"....this is three idiots in the UK. The Pope and Church leadership wont stand for this, and I suspect three Bishops are headed for menial clerical jobs in the Vatican Basement soon....

[k2blader]

Like many fellow fundies, I view the Bible as being inerrant, but I consider this different from being completely literally, historically, scientifically accurate.

I think it's necessary to retract this very poor and confusing post I made earlier. Scratch it, delete it, ignore it, please.

The Bible is inerrant. I'll leave it at that.