It is evolution as defined by Scientists.
It is "micro-evolution" as defined by "smart" creationists who wish to differentiate themselves from the "dumb" creationists; by admitting that what is obvious and reproducible in the lab actually does happen.
Your right that it is not "macro-evolution", as defined by "smart" Creationists, because the flies are still flies.
But your splitting hairs even using Creationist created terms. It is evolution, evolution has been tested, evolution through selection. Quibble if you wish about how it is "micro" and not "macro" but you cannot deny that it IS evolution as defined by Biologists, and "micro-evolution" as defined by "smart" Creationists.
I homeschool too. I have the smartest cat in West Virginia. He may crap on the sofa, but he meows like a pirate.
And what are the dark streaks with lighter areas on BOTH SIDES!!?? Did evolution BACK UP for a bit!!??
"I'm perfectly willing to accept ID as a valid theory just as soon as they show me some hard evidence in support of it."
Howdy there wolfpat;
We have hard evidence of ID. We have scriptures thousands of years old telling us what lays in store for us.
For example God told us about our "New Bodies":
2 Corinthians 5:
1 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down—when we die and leave these bodies—we will have a home in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands.
2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long for the day when we will put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing.
3 For we will not be spirits without bodies, but we will put on new heavenly bodies.
4 Our dying bodies make us groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and have no bodies at all. We want to slip into our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by everlasting life.
5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord.
7 That is why we live by believing and not by seeing.
8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.
9 So our aim is to please him always, whether we are here in this body or away from this body.
10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in our bodies.
***Now this doesn't go over well with our hard core Evols because most of them are self-confessed atheists, so this is only for the lurkers sitting on the fence.
***We have millions of eye witness's that have had NDE (Near Death Experience's) and came back to tell us what they've seen while they were dead.
***With at least one that has been fully documented as to be dead...dead...dead. Yet she saw everything that was happening to her doing surgery, plus she saw her deceased loved one's in Heaven.
Here's the story about her:
People Have NDEs While Brain Dead
Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist whose latest book, Light and Death, includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a woman named Pam Reynolds.
She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques.
She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as hypothermic cardiac arrest. It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success.
This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death.
After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life. During the time that Pam was in standstill, she experienced a NDE. Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be very accurate.
This case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments and procedures used and her ability to describe in detail these events while she was clinically and brain dead.
When all of Pam's vital signs were stopped, the doctor turned on a surgical saw and began to cut through Pam's skull. While this was going on, Pam reported that she felt herself "pop" outside her body and hover above the operating table.
Then she watched the doctors working on her lifeless body for awhile. From her out-of-body position, she observed the doctor sawing into her skull with what looked to her like an electric toothbrush.
Pam heard and reported later what the nurses in the operating room had said and exactly what was happening during the operation. At this time, every monitor attached to Pam's body registered "no life" whatsoever.
At some point, Pam's consciousness floated out of the operating room and traveled down a tunnel which had a light at the end of it where her deceased relatives and friends were waiting including her long-dead grandmother. Pam's NDE ended when her deceased uncle led her back to her body for her to reentered it. Pam compared the feeling of reentering her dead body to "plunging into a pool of ice." The following is Pam Reynolds' account of her NDE in her own words.
Pam Reynolds' NDE
The next thing I recall was the sound: It was a Natural "D." As I listened to the sound, I felt it was pulling me out of the top of my head. The further out of my body I got, the more clear the tone became.
I had the impression it was like a road, a frequency that you go on ... I remember seeing several things in the operating room when I was looking down. It was the most aware that I think that I have ever been in my entire life ...I was metaphorically sitting on [the doctor's] shoulder. It was not like normal vision. It was brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision ... There was so much in the operating room that I didn't recognize, and so many people.
I thought the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar. I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not ...
The saw-thing that I hated the sound of looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it, a groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle, but it didn't ... And the saw had interchangeable blades, too, but these blades were in what looked like a socket wrench case ... I heard the saw crank up. I didn't see them use it on my head, but I think I heard it being used on something. It was humming at a relatively high pitch and then all of a sudden it went Brrrrrrrrr! like that.
Someone said something about my veins and arteries being very small. I believe it was a female voice and that it was Dr. Murray, but I'm not sure. She was the cardiologist. I remember thinking that I should have told her about that ... I remember the heart-lung machine. I didn't like the respirator ... I remember a lot of tools and instruments that I did not readily recognize.
There was a sensation like being pulled, but not against your will. I was going on my own accord because I wanted to go. I have different metaphors to try to explain this. It was like the Wizard of Oz - being taken up in a tornado vortex, only you're not spinning around like you've got vertigo. You're very focused and you have a place to go. The feeling was like going up in an elevator real fast. And there was a sensation, but it wasn't a bodily, physical sensation. It was like a tunnel but it wasn't a tunnel.
At some point very early in the tunnel vortex I became aware of my grandmother calling me. But I didn't hear her call me with my ears ... It was a clearer hearing than with my ears. I trust that sense more than I trust my own ears.
The feeling was that she wanted me to come to her, so I continued with no fear down the shaft. It's a dark shaft that I went through, and at the very end there was this very little tiny pinpoint of light that kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
The light was incredibly bright, like sitting in the middle of a light bulb. It was so bright that I put my hands in front of my face fully expecting to see them and I could not. But I knew they were there. Not from a sense of touch. Again, it's terribly hard to explain, but I knew they were there ...
I noticed that as I began to discern different figures in the light - and they were all covered with light, they were light, and had light permeating all around them - they began to form shapes I could recognize and understand. I could see that one of them was my grandmother. I don't know if it was reality or a projection, but I would know my grandmother, the sound of her, anytime, anywhere.
Everyone I saw, looking back on it, fit perfectly into my understanding of what that person looked like at their best during their lives.
I recognized a lot of people. My uncle Gene was there. So was my great-great-Aunt Maggie, who was really a cousin. On Papa's side of the family, my grandfather was there ... They were specifically taking care of me, looking after me.
They would not permit me to go further ... It was communicated to me - that's the best way I know how to say it, because they didn't speak like I'm speaking - that if I went all the way into the light something would happen to me physically. They would be unable to put this me back into the body me, like I had gone too far and they couldn't reconnect. So they wouldn't let me go anywhere or do anything.
I wanted to go into the light, but I also wanted to come back. I had children to be reared. It was like watching a movie on fast-forward on your VCR: You get the general idea, but the individual freeze-frames are not slow enough to get detail.
Then they [deceased relatives] were feeding me. They were not doing this through my mouth, like with food, but they were nourishing me with something. The only way I know how to put it is something sparkly. Sparkles is the image that I get. I definitely recall the sensation of being nurtured and being fed and being made strong. I know it sounds funny, because obviously it wasn't a physical thing, but inside the experience I felt physically strong, ready for whatever.
My grandmother didn't take me back through the tunnel, or even send me back or ask me to go. She just looked up at me. I expected to go with her, but it was communicated to me that she just didn't think she would do that. My uncle said he would do it. He's the one who took me back through the end of the tunnel. Everything was fine. I did want to go.
But then I got to the end of it and saw the thing, my body. I didn't want to get into it ... It looked terrible, like a train wreck. It looked like what it was: dead. I believe it was covered. It scared me and I didn't want to look at it.
It was communicated to me that it was like jumping into a swimming pool. No problem, just jump right into the swimming pool. I didn't want to, but I guess I was late or something because he [the uncle] pushed me. I felt a definite repelling and at the same time a pulling from the body. The body was pulling and the tunnel was pushing ... It was like diving into a pool of ice water ... It hurt!
When I came back, they were playing Hotel California and the line was "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave." I mentioned [later] to Dr. Brown that that was incredibly insensitive and he told me that I needed to sleep more. [laughter] When I regained consciousness, I was still on the respirator.
For practical purposes outside the world of academic debate, three clinical tests commonly determine brain death. First, a standard electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures brain-wave activity. A "flat" EEG denotes non-function of the cerebral cortex - the outer shell of the cerebrum. Second, auditory evoked potentials, similar to those [clicks] elicited by the ear speakers in Pam's surgery, measure brain-stem viability. Absence of these potentials indicates non-function of the brain stem. And third, documentation of no blood flow to the brain is a marker for a generalized absence of brain function.
But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all Atlanta Study participants.
Some scientists theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:
"The brain isn’t functioning. It’s not there. It’s destroyed. It’s abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don’t know what’s happening and the brain isn’t working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won’t remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
***Now the Bible tells us we'll have a different type body then what we have right now:
1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection Body
35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first.
37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a dry little seed of wheat or whatever it is you are planting.
38 Then God gives it a new body—just the kind he wants it to have. A different kind of plant grows from each kind of seed.
39 And just as there are different kinds of seeds and plants, so also there are different kinds of flesh—whether of humans, animals, birds, or fish.
40 There are bodies in the heavens, and there are bodies on earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the beauty of the earthly bodies.
41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their beauty and brightness.
42 It is the same way for the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies, which die and decay, will be different when they are resurrected, for they will never die. 43Our bodies now disappoint us, but when they are raised, they will be full of glory. They are weak now, but when they are raised, they will be full of power.
44 They are natural human bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, so also there are spiritual bodies.
45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.”£ But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit.
46 What came first was the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later.
47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven.
48 Every human being has an earthly body just like Adam’s, but our heavenly bodies will be just like Christ’s.
49 Just as we are now like Adam, the man of the earth, so we will someday be like Christ, the man from heaven.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These perishable bodies of ours are not able to live forever.
51 But let me tell you a wonderful secret God has revealed to us. Not all of us will die, but we will all be transformed.
52 It will happen in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, the Christians who have died£ will be raised with transformed bodies. And then we who are living will be transformed so that we will never die.
53 For our perishable earthly bodies must be transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die.
54 When this happens—when our perishable earthly bodies have been transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die—then at last the Scriptures will come true:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
56 For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power.
57 How we thank God, who gives us victory over sin and death through Jesus Christ our Lord!
58 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be strong and steady, always enthusiastic about the Lord’s work, for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless.
***Now if Evols can believe that we evolved from goo... animals, ect. ect, until we reached the stage we are now just from looking at some old bones, you'd think they'd be willing to listen to the millions of testimonies from folks that caught a glimpse of Heaven & Hell when they had a NDE wouldn't you?
But no...they'd rather scoff at eye witness's and cling to the tired old idea that they've "evolved"...Sheesh.
No one was there to see for themselves...this is just what Evols "believe" happened. Guesswork! And their Bible is "Talk Origins" which is nothing more than a newsgroup and website, but they believe every word as their gospel.
God also told us that folks wouldn't believe even if someone came back from the dead:
Luke 16:
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed and who lived each day in luxury.
20 At his door lay a diseased beggar named Lazarus.
21 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores.
22 Finally, the beggar died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried,
23 and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Lazarus in the far distance with Abraham.
24 “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in these flames.’
25 “But Abraham said to him, ‘son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish.
26 And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. Anyone who wanted to cross over to you from here is stopped at its edge, and no one there can cross over to us.’
27 “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, send him to my father’s home.
28 For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them about this place of torment so they won’t have to come here when they die.’
29 “But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read their writings anytime they want to.’
30 “The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will turn from their sins.’
31 “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t listen even if someone rises from the dead.’”
***Now our atheists friends want to scoff at what the Bible says and that's fine as God has given us all "Free Will" to believe whatever we want, but He also wants those who don't know about Him what our future has in store for us.
***He will also lay every lost child upon those who have led the children astray:
Matt 18:
3 Then he said, “I assure you, unless you turn from your sins and become as little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.
4 Therefore, anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
5 And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me.
6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who trusts in me to lose faith, it would be better for that person to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around the neck.
