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Arabs blame French society, discrimination
ap on Yahoo ^ | 11/09/05 | TAREK AL-ISSAWI - ap

Posted on 11/09/2005 12:05:20 PM PST by NormsRevenge

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - France's riots have set off a round of troubled debate across the Arab world: Most here blame a failure to offer opportunity to immigrants, but others see a more ominous clash of cultures over Islam.

Across the Middle East, the images of burning cars and stone-throwing young people have dominated newspapers and television. Analysts have hotly debated the riots' meaning, their cause and whether they might spread.

"The anger displayed, and the intensity with which it has spread, is alarming," said one Persian Gulf political analyst, Abdul Khaleq Abdulla.

Most attribute the flare-ups to social injustice and high unemployment, rather than anti-Islamic discrimination or a wider culture clash. They have urged the French government — and the Western world at large — to take concrete steps to rectify the problem.

"There are no puzzles here. The core problem is mass degradation and alienation manifesting themselves in ... belts of educated, usually unemployed, young men throughout Arab and Asian urban areas; and in parallel urban zones of mass disenfranchisement and marginalization," said Rami Khouri, writing Wednesday in the Lebanon Daily Star.

Added Al-Arabiya director Abdel Rahman al-Rashed: "These are the voices of a community that has no voice on the political scene."

But Iran has taken a more provocative slant, blaming anti-Islamic sentiment that it contends is widespread across Europe.

"Restrictions imposed on the Islamic dress code in France are an official policy there and the government has suppressed minorities' beliefs and humiliated them openly," the hard-line Jomhuri Eslami daily said in a commentary.

Immigrants tend to blend in more in the United States, while in Europe the barriers of culture, language and class are high, noted Shafiq al-Ghabra, the president of the American University in Kuwait, in his column in Al-Rai Al-Aam daily.

The worry is that right-wing groups will gain power in France because of the uprisings, he said.

"Will Europe enter into a confrontation phase with Muslims on its territories?" he asked.

Many of those rioting are French-born children of immigrants from France's former Arab and north African territories like Algeria. Community leaders in France's slums have long complained of a lack of jobs and widespread discrimination.

Among government leaders in the Arab world, the images of streets on fire raised many alarms.

In Saudi Arabia, the official Saudi Press Agency reported Wednesday that King Abdullah, in a telephone conversation with French President Jacques Chirac, expressed "the kingdom's hope that the French government would be able to put an end to the acts of sabotage."

The Jordan Times, an English-language daily, compared the French riots to those three years ago in Maan, a poor city in southern Jordan that is an Islamist stronghold and frequently prone to rioting.

"Many blamed the riots on Islamic fundamentalism, exactly like many today are speaking of religious violence in the Parisian banlieues (suburbs)," said the Jordan Times in an editorial. "But deep down, they are two stories of denied opportunities, forgotten reform."

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: arabs; blame; borderslanguage; culture; discrimination; everyoneelsesfault; french; goodgrief; gwot; immigration; islamofacism; refuse2assimilate; scum; society
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To: 2banana


41 posted on 11/09/2005 12:37:11 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: NormsRevenge

Let's not point the finger at the world's #1 institution advocating terrorism--islam. (sarc)

42 posted on 11/09/2005 12:44:04 PM PST by lilylangtree
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To: 50sDad
Did I miss anything?

Nope. I think you got the message.

43 posted on 11/09/2005 12:46:01 PM PST by cdrw (Freedom and responsibility are inseparable)
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To: NormsRevenge

France has serious economic problems that will help fuel future unrest regardless of if there are Muslim immigrants or not.

That in no way excuses the actions of the Muslim immigrants. If France has nothing to offer you, don't immigrate to there.

44 posted on 11/09/2005 12:48:26 PM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: Humvee

Just like false claims about -0-, in 2,000 years, history will record that Muslims were responsible for building the ancient civilization of France...

45 posted on 11/09/2005 12:49:18 PM PST by lemura
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To: NormsRevenge

Sounds very familiar.
Seems we have a similar problem in the USA with people who have set themselves apart, refuse to integrate, refuse to learn the language of the country, refuse to adopt its customs, cuss and moan, demand special privileges, blame their problems on other people, get special privileges, continue blaming their problems on other people.

46 posted on 11/09/2005 12:53:52 PM PST by (what have you done today to fight terrorism/leftism (same thing!))
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To: F15Eagle

I had a bad day today too, think I'll go home and torch my neighbor's car.

47 posted on 11/09/2005 12:57:08 PM PST by SMARTY
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To: NormsRevenge
They have urged the French government — and the Western world at large — to take concrete steps to rectify the problem

Hmmmm. How cost effective would that be? Why, it would take millions of buckets of wet cement..not to mention transportation to the ocean...s/

48 posted on 11/09/2005 1:01:09 PM PST by Iron Matron
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: Polyxene

Here's what slays me about their mentality...where ever they go when they leave their own's always the same. They make their new home just exactly like their old home and wonder why they are such losers.... well, if you reproduce to the point of abject, squalid poverty in your own country, disrespect, abuse and refuse education to women, if men (by design) are so unskilled and uneducated they can only build bombs and kill, if you so ruined your own country that it is untenable for you and your family.....what makes you think that you will come here, refuse to assimilate, alienate your host country, continue in the same cultural and social 'habits', duplicate here the identically unwholesome and impoverished environment you created for yourselves in your homeland and still succeed??? Can you say parasite???

51 posted on 11/09/2005 1:03:49 PM PST by SMARTY
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To: NormsRevenge
You know, the mooslims and the liberals have one thing in common, they both deeply believe their view of the world is correct.

Mooslims and liberls are equally delusional.
52 posted on 11/09/2005 1:06:48 PM PST by Beckwith (The liberal press has picked sides ... and they have sided with the Islamofascists)
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To: NormsRevenge
The worry is that right-wing groups will gain power in France because of the uprisings, he said. "Will Europe enter into a confrontation phase with Muslims on its territories?" he asked.

The irony is astounding. Muslims have just gone on a rampage and set 300 towns a lite and this guy is asking if Europe will enter into a confrontation with Muslims. It seems pretty clear that the confrontation has already begun. It is not a question of 'will it happen?' and it is the Muslims who have entered into a confrontation phase with the French - not the other way around.

I have no doubt that significant discrimination and disadvantage exist in France. France is a socialist dump notwithstanding the beauty of Paris proper, so it comes as no surprise that segregated ethnic populations experience the brunt of a general economic stagnation. But if they really wanted to be French they would do it all the French way ... they would go on strike and stage protests. I find it hard to believe that 10% of the population is actually voiceless and can find no peaceful means through the political process.

There is no excuse for burning the place to the ground. Job discrimination does not justify violence.

53 posted on 11/09/2005 1:07:08 PM PST by cdrw (Freedom and responsibility are inseparable)
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To: NormsRevenge

People who follow evil religions do evil things.
It's all in their satanic handbook- the Koran.
Death to Islam.

54 posted on 11/09/2005 1:11:49 PM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: 2banana


55 posted on 11/09/2005 1:50:43 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: Kristopher

just the last one, the blackmail and cooercion chapter.

convert to our way inspite of us being in your nation. let us create no go zones in your land, let us declare sharia ion those ones, then give us autonomy, then let us expand our new territories

palestinian style

56 posted on 11/09/2005 1:54:58 PM PST by jackson29
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To: NormsRevenge

The worry is that right-wing groups will gain power in France because of the uprisings, he said.

"Will Europe enter into a confrontation phase with Muslims on its territories?" he asked.

*It is only rational to believe that integration, tolerance and compatibility is impossible between Muslims and ANY OTHER culture. France's ultra liberal socialism is a farce and proven to be NOT "egalitarian." However, I believe any free society which includes Muslims dare not be egalitarian. Muslims prohibit free speech, prohibit from their sight any offending freedom of expression and exhibit of art forms, and persecute choice and nonconformity, and harshly if not brutally discriminate. Furthermore, their leadership bitches about the slightest irrelevancy perceived as an affront or any adverse opinion which is a truthful and factual assessment of Muslims/Islamics. (Ref: Film producer VanGogh's assassination.) Until 9/11 and since becoming more informed by indepth information and knowledge about Muslims/Islamics throughout the world, I did not have as I do now very fearful and critical opinions about them. Far surpassing the nazis and soviets (and Amer. Democrats/liberals/ACLU) in suppressing free thought and free speech, Muslims by culture and religion are a threat to any civil society. The French are self-destructing because they act upon passive abeyance and pseudo-liberal permissiveness in their relations with their Muslim population.

The Muslim leaders and French communists who lament "fears" of so-called "rightwing reactions" IGNORE the fact that these are NORMAL reactions from NORMAL citizens who expect NORMALCY and to be FREE from Muslim/Islam dictating social behavior and paranoic demands. The Muslims want more representation (leverage) in France's politics??? That "liberal" acquiesence spells doom. France should take all their available welfare funds and buy a remote island for the Muslims to develop a pure Islamic society according to its own rigid requirements. Reality: The rigid requirements of Sharia Law allows Muslims/Islamics to be compatible only with themselves.

57 posted on 11/09/2005 2:49:32 PM PST by purpleland (Vigilance and Valor! Socialism is the Opiate of Academia)
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To: 50sDad

What Arab Civilization?
This letter was sent to Carly Fiorina, CEO of Hewlett Packard Corporation, in response to a speech given by her on September 26, 2001.

November 7, 2001

Carly Fiorina
3000 Hanover Street
Palo Alto, CA 94304-1185

Dear Madame Fiorina:

It is with great interest that I read your speech delivered on September 26, 2001, titled "Technology, Business and Our way of Life: What's Next" [sic]. I was particularly interested in the story you told at the end of your speech, about the Arab/Muslim civilization. As an Assyrian, a non-Arab, Christian native of the Middle East, whose ancestors reach back to 5000 B.C., I wish to clarify some points you made in this little story, and to alert you to the dangers of unwittingly being drawn into the Arabist/Islamist ideology, which seeks to assimilate all cultures and religions into the Arab/Islamic fold.

I know you are a very busy woman, but please find ten minutes to read what follows, as it is a perspective that you will not likely get from anywhere else. I will answer some of the specific points you made in your speech, then conclude with a brief perspective on this Arabist/Islamist ideology.

Arabs and Muslims appeared on the world scene in 630 A.D., when the armies of Muhammad began their conquest of the Middle East. We should be very clear that this was a military conquest, not a missionary enterprise, and through the use of force, authorized by a declaration of a Jihad against infidels, Arabs/Muslims were able to forcibly convert and assimilate non-Arabs and non-Mulsims into their fold. Very few indigenous communities of the Middle East survived this -- primarily Assyrians, Jews, Armenians and Coptics (of Egypt).

Having conquered the Middle East, Arabs placed these communities under a Dhimmi (see the book Dhimmi, by Bat Ye'Or) system of governance, where the communities were allowed to rule themselves as religious minorities (Christians, Jews and Zoroastrian). These communities had to pay a tax (called a Jizzya in Arabic) that was, in effect, a penalty for being non-Muslim, and that was typically 80% in times of tolerance and up to 150% in times of oppression. This tax forced many of these communities to convert to Islam, as it was designed to do.

You state, "its architects designed buildings that defied gravity." I am not sure what you are referring to, but if you are referring to domes and arches, the fundamental architectural breakthrough of using a parabolic shape instead of a spherical shape for these structures was made by the Assyrians more than 1300 years earlier, as evidenced by their archaeological record.

You state, "its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption." The fundamental basis of modern mathematics had been laid down not hundreds but thousands of years before by Assyrians and Babylonians, who already knew of the concept of zero, of the Pythagorean Theorem, and of many, many other developments expropriated by Arabs/Muslims (see History of Babylonian Mathematics, Neugebauer).

You state, "its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease." The overwhelming majority of these doctors (99%) were Assyrians. In the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries Assyrians began a systematic translation of the Greek body of knowledge into Assyrian. At first they concentrated on the religious works but then quickly moved to science, philosophy and medicine. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Galen, and many others were translated into Assyrian, and from Assyrian into Arabic. It is these Arabic translations which the Moors brought with them into Spain, and which the Spaniards translated into Latin and spread throughout Europe, thus igniting the European Renaissance.

By the sixth century A.D., Assyrians had begun exporting back to Byzantia their own works on science, philosophy and medicine. In the field of medicine, the Bakhteesho Assyrian family produced nine generations of physicians, and founded the great medical school at Gundeshapur (Iran). Also in the area of medicine, (the Assyrian) Hunayn ibn-Ishaq's textbook on ophthalmology, written in 950 A.D., remained the authoritative source on the subject until 1800 A.D.

In the area of philosophy, the Assyrian philosopher Job of Edessa developed a physical theory of the universe, in the Assyrian language, that rivaled Aristotle's theory, and that sought to replace matter with forces (a theory that anticipated some ideas in quantum mechanics, such as the spontaneous creation and destruction of matter that occurs in the quantum vacuum).

One of the greatest Assyrian achievements of the fourth century was the founding of the first university in the world, the School of Nisibis, which had three departments, theology, philosophy and medicine, and which became a magnet and center of intellectual development in the Middle East. The statutes of the School of Nisibis, which have been preserved, later became the model upon which the first Italian university was based (see The Statutes of the School of Nisibis, by Arthur Voobus).

When Arabs and Islam swept through the Middle East in 630 A.D., they encountered 600 years of Assyrian Christian civilization, with a rich heritage, a highly developed culture, and advanced learning institutions. It is this civilization that became the foundation of the Arab civilization.

You state, "Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration." This is a bit melodramatic. In fact, the astronomers you refer to were not Arabs but Chaldeans and Babylonians (of present day south-Iraq), who for millennia were known as astronomers and astrologers, and who were forcibly Arabized and Islamized -- so rapidly that by 750 A.D. they had disappeared completely.

You state, "its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things." There is very little literature in the Arabic language that comes from this period you are referring to (the Koran is the only significant piece of literature), whereas the literary output of the Assyrians and Jews was vast. The third largest corpus of Christian writing, after Latin and Greek, is by the Assyrians in the Assyrian language (also called Syriac; see here.)

You state, "when other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others." This is a very important issue you raise, and it goes to the heart of the matter of what Arab/Islamic civilization represents. I reviewed a book titled How Greek Science Passed to the Arabs, in which the author lists the significant translators and interpreters of Greek science. Of the 22 scholars listed, 20 were Assyrians, 1 was Persian and 1 an Arab. I state at the end of my review: "The salient conclusion which can be drawn from O'Leary's book is that Assyrians played a significant role in the shaping of the Islamic world via the Greek corpus of knowledge. If this is so, one must then ask the question, what happened to the Christian communities which made them lose this great intellectual enterprise which they had established. One can ask this same question of the Arabs. Sadly, O'Leary's book does not answer this question, and we must look elsewhere for the answer." I did not answer this question I posed in the review because it was not the place to answer it, but the answer is very clear, the Christian Assyrian community was drained of its population through forced conversion to Islam (by the Jizzya), and once the community had dwindled below a critical threshold, it ceased producing the scholars that were the intellectual driving force of the Islamic civilization, and that is when the so called "Golden Age of Islam" came to an end (about 850 A.D.).

Islam the religion itself was significantly molded by Assyrians and Jews (see Nestorian Influence on Islam and Hagarism: the Making of the Islamic World).

Arab/Islamic civilization is not a progressive force, it is a regressive force; it does not give impetus, it retards. The great civilization you describe was not an Arab/Muslim accomplishment, it was an Assyrian accomplishment that Arabs expropriated and subsequently lost when they drained, through the forced conversion of Assyrians to Islam, the source of the intellectual vitality that propelled it. What other Arab/Muslim civilization has risen since? What other Arab/Muslim successes can we cite?

You state, "and perhaps we can learn a lesson from his [Suleiman] example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions." In fact, the Ottomans were extremely oppressive to non-Muslims. For example, young Christian boys were forcefully taken from their families, usually at the age of 8-10, and inducted into the Janissaries, (yeniceri in Turkish) where they were Islamized and made to fight for the Ottoman state. What literary, artistic or scientific achievements of the Ottomans can we point to? We can, on the other hand, point to the genocide of 750,000 Assyrians, 1.5 million Armenians and 400,000 Greeks in World War One by the Kemalist "Young Turk" government. This is the true face of Islam.

Arabs/Muslims are engaged in an explicit campaign of destruction and expropriation of cultures and communities, identities and ideas. Wherever Arab/Muslim civilization encounters a non-Arab/Muslim one, it attempts to destroy it (as the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan were destroyed, as Persepolis was destroyed by the Ayotollah Khomeini). This is a pattern that has been recurring since the advent of Islam, 1400 years ago, and is amply substantiated by the historical record. If the "foreign" culture cannot be destroyed, then it is expropriated, and revisionist historians claim that it is and was Arab, as is the case of most of the Arab "accomplishments" you cited in your speech. For example, Arab history texts in the Middle East teach that Assyrians were Arabs, a fact that no reputable scholar would assert, and that no living Assyrian would accept. Assyrians first settled Nineveh, one of the major Assyrian cities, in 5000 B.C., which is 5630 years before Arabs came into that area. Even the word 'Arab' is an Assyrian word, meaning "Westerner" (the first written reference to Arabs was by the Assyrian King Sennacherib, 800 B.C., in which he tells of conquering the "ma'rabayeh" -- Westerners. See The Might That Was Assyria, by H. W. F. Saggs).

Even in America this Arabization policy continues. On October 27th a coalition of seven Assyrian and Maronite organizations sent an official letter to the Arab American Institute asking it to stop identifying Assyrians and Maronites as Arabs, which it had been deliberately doing.

There are minorities and nations struggling for survival in the Arab/Muslim ocean of the Middle East and Africa (Assyrians, Armenians, Coptics, Jews, southern Sudanese, Ethiopians, Nigerians...), and we must be very sensitive not to unwittingly and inadvertently support Islamic fascism and Arab Imperialism, with their attempts to wipe out all other cultures, religions and civilizations. It is incumbent upon each one of us to do our homework and research when making statements and speeches about these sensitive matters.

I hope you found this information enlightening. For more information, refer to the web links below. You may contact me at for further questions.

Thank you for your consideration.

Peter BetBasoo

58 posted on 11/09/2005 4:12:22 PM PST by Fred Nerks (The media isn't mainstream it's the ENEMY! The enemy enemy ENEMEDIA!)
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To: NormsRevenge

If the Middle East is "the holy land", why do they want to live and breed anywhere except THERE?

59 posted on 11/09/2005 5:23:35 PM PST by gaijin
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