Posted on 11/10/2005 10:40:00 AM PST by neverdem
Plaintiff's say Prop. H steps beyond local government authority, treads on state turf
Gun owners and advocates wasted little time Wednesday in challenging San Francisco's newly enacted prohibition on handgun possession by filing a lawsuit in the same court that tossed out a local handgun ban 23 years ago and vowing to, if necessary, use shotguns to protect themselves.
The lawsuit argues that Proposition H, approved Tuesday by 58 percent of the city's voters, oversteps local government authority and intrudes into an area entirely regulated by the state.
But even with the pending court case, some gun owners are preparing for the possibility of having to give up their handguns on Jan. 1, when the law is scheduled to take effect.
"I have a shotgun. I bought it first thing when I heard this was going on the ballot," said Mike Ege, who also owns two handguns and is a spokesman for the Prop. H opponents. "I'm getting a safety deposit box out of the county (for the handguns)."
The measure doesn't make it illegal for San Franciscans to possess shotguns, like the 12-gauge with an 18-inch barrel that Ege keeps in his home.
Under Prop. H, residents have until April 1 to surrender their handguns to police without penalty. The proposition also makes it illegal to sell, manufacture and distribute firearms and ammunition within city limits.
But the lawsuit filed by the National Rifle Association argues that California law, which authorizes police agencies to issue handgun permits, implicitly forbids "local attempts to ban the possession of handguns by law-abiding, responsible adults.''
Plaintiffs in the lawsuit -- filed in the first district state Court of Appeal in San Francisco -- also include California Association of Firearm Retailers, two other organizations and seven individual gun owners. They argue that the new...
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
'If this travesty stands, it will only be because we have judges not fit to serve a free nation.'
Amen to that!
Actualy, in many states you can carry long arms legaly if unconcealed! Check your local regulations.
The Superior Court issued an order granting the City's motion for summary judgment (which was upheld on appeal to the Cal SC). In essence the court held that the ban was not arbitrary and did not violate due process or equal protection principles. In addition, the court sided with the argument by the City that the ban was not expressly forbidden by the state's preemption laws because it did not establish any licensing or registration requirements in violation of Government Code Section 53071. However, the West Hollywood ban was probably upheld because it did not "impose a wholesale ban on the possession of firearms - it merely bans the sale of one particular.... type of handgun."
People say that a lot, but it's debatable, depending on various factors. If you're in a cramped, pitch-dark hallway, and have to go around corners, a 30-inch barrel may not be ideal.
For better or worse, I'd think most people's instinct would be to first shoulder a shotgun -- how could it then be aimed at somebody literally on top of you or otherwise "in your face" -- contrast that with a handgun. (Yes, you can get shotguns with alternative stocks/grips.) Not all bad guys are going to pose on the far end of the room, silhouetted by the window.
And I suggest at typical home defense shooting distances, you're going to get very minimal "spread" with buckshot/birdshot.
On the other hand "they" do often say that a pump shotgun has the big advantage of providing the "instant brown shorts" effect on bad guys, when the action is cycled.
Communism. There is no penalty spelled out in the law, so the penalty is whatever the "board" FEELS like it should be. This is why we (good) people can no longer live with the Left. We need to leave and let them die out or face their reality.
That's how I feel about it too. Here is the e-mail I sent to the NRA yesterday.
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of my NRA, It is with great concern for the well being of all Americans' 2nd Amendment rights and the disregard of the Constitution as demonstrated by the politicians and the voters of San Francisco in passing the Handgun Ban entitled Proposition H that I address you today.
If a City can ignore the 2nd Amendment, then what is to stop them from ignoring anything else in the Constitution? Would a ban on Free Speech or Freedom of Religion be any less repugnent to the Constitution? I think not.
This simply cannot stand. The majority of voters in San Francisco do not have the right nor the power to pass such a law, as clearly it is Unconstitutional.
I know that the NRA will be at the forefront of this battle, and it is one long overdue. I join with you and encourage you to work with other pro 2nd Amendment organizations to correct this situation, and in so doing, keep our Constitutional Republic alive and well.
This is not a battle we can afford to lose one city at a time, one Amendment at a time. We must stop this now.
Yours truly,
Story from John Lott yesterday on NRO. The vote was really an opinion poll.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lott200511091053.asp
The people of San Francisco have a right to their opinion, and no one is forcing them to be armed.
Everyone else should be able to be armed as provided for in the Constitution.
The anti-gun weenies also have the right to proudly display a sign on their door saying "Gun Free Zone" or "Criminal Safe Residence". Lots of luck on that one!
I should clarify that first line. The people of San Francisco (who voted for the ban) have a right to their opinion.
In this case though, not the right to force it on other San Franciscans who don't share their opinion.
Not that it is the most important part of this illegal blissninnie "law", which will be overturned in court anyway, but does this provision outlaw handloading? Just wondering, and being thankful that I live in Texas, where I can own what I want (including full autos, if I had the money), can carry concealed and can handload as much as I want (until my wife tells me to come inside and take care of the kids).
I would think handloading becomes forbidden.
I am willing to lay 2:1 odds that this ban will not be struct down by the California Supreme Court on "preemption."
They already, in 2002, upheld Alameda County's ban on possession of firearms on county property as part of an effort to ban gun shows.
Nope, not in the legal Bizarro World of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
The Ninth Circuit has determined, in their infinitesimal wisdom, that the Second Amendment protects a "collective" right, not an individual right, and that individual citizens of California do not have standing to bring a Second Amendment claim. The US Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal of this position despite clear conflict with the Fifth Circuit.
See http://www.tacr.us/ for details.
I prefer my "Lucky Gun".
The Second Amendment is NOT considered to be incorporated via the 14th. Amendment. If it was, the RKBA'rs would not have all these morons trying to disarm "the people" with discriminatory and arbitrary laws.
The 14th. Amendment is nothing more than a legal contraption that make some equal, others more so and others less than.
MOLON LABE - From the ancient Greek, they are the reply of the Spartan General-King Leonidas to Xerxes, the Persian Emperor who came with 600,000 of the fiercest fighting troops in the world to conquer and invade little Greece, then the center and birthplace of civilization as we know it. When Xerxes offered to spare the lives of Leonidas, his 300 personal bodyguards and a handful of Thebans and others who volunteered to defend their country, if they would lay down their arms, Leonidas shouted these two words back. "Molon Labe!" (mo-lone lah-veh)
Molon Labe bumper stickers, a handy way of telling all the gun-grabbing people in America just what you think. A black oval, 4.25in by 2.75in, with white lettering.
They're $2.00 each, including shipping and handling.
So what's the translation?
NUTS!
I assume that forgot your sarcasm indicator. For those who don't know it's, "Come and get them."
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