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U.S. to lift safety net for Yellowstone grizzlies
msnbc ^ | Nov. 15, 2005 | Staff

Posted on 11/15/2005 12:18:32 PM PST by La Enchiladita

WASHINGTON - Noting that the grizzly bear population in the Yellowstone area has thrived in recent years, the Bush administration on Tuesday announced that it plans to remove federal protections for the animals in the areas around the national park.

"A population that was once plummeting towards extinction is now recovered," Interior Secretary Gale Norton said in making the announcement. "These bears are now no longer endangered" and should be removed from the Endangered Species Act listing.

The Interior Department, through the Fish and Wildlife Service, implements the Endangered Species Act.

"We are sure that these bears will have the habitat that they need," Norton added.

Significant recovery Federal wildlife officials estimate that more than 600 grizzly bears live in the region surrounding Yellowstone in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. They also describe as healthy an annual growth rate over the past decade of 4 to 7 percent.

Those numbers represent a significant recovery. Only 200 or 250 grizzlies were in that region in 1975, when grizzly bears in the lower 48 states were listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act.

Once in the hundreds of thousands, the bear population dwindled in the West early in the last century in large part because of hunting and destruction of the animals habitat.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Alaska; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Idaho; US: Minnesota; US: Montana; US: Nevada; US: Washington; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: endangeredspecies; grizzlies; yellowstone
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I would like to never meet a grizzly, personally.
1 posted on 11/15/2005 12:18:34 PM PST by La Enchiladita
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To: La Enchiladita

How does bear taste? Anybody?


2 posted on 11/15/2005 12:20:18 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: La Enchiladita

Well, they're either endangered or they're not. When they're not they should be removed from this list.


3 posted on 11/15/2005 12:21:31 PM PST by 1Old Pro (Confirm Alito before year end!)
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To: La Enchiladita
Finally, the endangered species act lets one leak through to reality!
4 posted on 11/15/2005 12:21:42 PM PST by TChris ("Unless you act, you're going to lose your world." - Mark Steyn)
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To: coconutt2000
How does bear taste? Anybody?

Sort of greasy, mutton-like in that respect.

5 posted on 11/15/2005 12:22:00 PM PST by adamsjas
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To: La Enchiladita

Has PETA approved this yet?


6 posted on 11/15/2005 12:22:53 PM PST by tioga
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To: La Enchiladita

Gayle Norton gets almost no coverage. I guess that is because she is doing a superb job. She has negotiated a couple of regional comples solutions by getting everyone to the table. I am not sure how she is doing with the lawsuit to resolve Indian payments. It's just not on the radar screen of the Washington ech chamber.


7 posted on 11/15/2005 12:23:23 PM PST by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: TChris
There's more:

Three Republican senators who attended the Interior news conference Tuesday used the event to call for changes in the endangered species law that would enable more animals to be removed from the list. The House passed a bill in September that would lessen the government’s role in protecting plant and animal habitat.

8 posted on 11/15/2005 12:23:30 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Request or send care packages for/to troops at www.opgratitude.com)
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To: adamsjas

Love mutton. Bear stew... hmm...


9 posted on 11/15/2005 12:24:10 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000
Actually had it once at a game night, but was stewed and a little tougher than beef and slightly greasy as I remember. 5 1/2 on a 10 scale.
10 posted on 11/15/2005 12:24:15 PM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: coconutt2000

It's beef like. I've only had it once, about 2 years ago. It was a bit tough and fatty, but it was good. As with any meat, I'm sure the particular cut can vary. Mine was rump roast. The tender loins are probably better. I'd eat it again.


11 posted on 11/15/2005 12:24:44 PM PST by sparkomatic (I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. Phil 4:13)
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To: freepatriot32

RFE List PING.


12 posted on 11/15/2005 12:25:16 PM PST by uglybiker (nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh BAT MAN!!)
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To: tioga

Yeah, are they gonna arm Yogi and Boo-Boo?

How does Mr. Ranger feel about this?


13 posted on 11/15/2005 12:26:12 PM PST by RexBeach ("The rest of the world is three drinks behind." -Humphrey Bogart)
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To: La Enchiladita
Will they replace the safety net with a trampoline????
14 posted on 11/15/2005 12:28:34 PM PST by flashbunny (LOCKBOX: Where most republicans keep their gonads after they arrive in Washington D.C.)
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To: ncountylee; sparkomatic; adamsjas

Thanks. If I ever move to the mainland, I'll try and make sure I move someplace where there is hunting. I've only had game meat once, and that was because an uncle from Texas brought us some venison.

It was good.


15 posted on 11/15/2005 12:29:27 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: La Enchiladita
"...and in other news, shares of Halliburton stock soared on news of their latest product offering, an alternative fuel made from Grizzly Bear fat."

</DU_paranoia>

16 posted on 11/15/2005 12:29:54 PM PST by Redcloak (We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singin' "whiskey for my men and beer for my horses!")
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To: La Enchiladita
Once in the hundreds of thousands, the bear population dwindled in the West early in the last century

I sincerly doubt the lower 48 grizzly population was ever in the hundreds of thousands, unless we are talking very low hundreds like 2.

The carrying capacity of the land is just not that great for bears unless there is a large fish population, such as you find in Alaska.

Bear populations vary depending on the productivity of the environment. In areas of low productivity, such as on Alaska’s North Slope, studies have revealed bear densities as low as one bear per 300 square miles. In areas teeming with easily available food, such as Admiralty Island in Southeast Alaska, densities as high as one bear per square mile have been found. However this sort of habitat is very rare in mainland USA.

Note: Formerly, taxonomists listed brown and grizzly bears as separate species. Technically, brown and grizzly bears are classified as the same species, Ursus arctos. Brown bears on Kodiak Island are classified as a distinct subspecies from those on the mainland because they are genetically and physically isolated. They can interbreed (such as in zoos) and produce viable offspring, which is still (pretty much) the working definition of same species.

17 posted on 11/15/2005 12:33:25 PM PST by adamsjas
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To: 1Old Pro

Not endangered as long as there is a picknickbasket nearby.

18 posted on 11/15/2005 12:36:54 PM PST by oyez (Appeasement is death!)
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To: adamsjas

All this time, I thought they were two separate species...

I saw a documentary on TV recently about the grizzlies and Yellowstone. I don't understand people who get as close as they can to grizzlies just to watch them and take pictures. I don't fancy being so close to a wild creature with such strength, claws and teeth without some form of self-defense. Stupid people, IMO.


19 posted on 11/15/2005 12:38:02 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Request or send care packages for/to troops at www.opgratitude.com)
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To: coconutt2000
We've got a restaurant here in Greenville SC called Saskatoons. They serve all kinds of wild game. Deer, Buffalo, Emu, Ostrich, Yak, Gator, Bison...etc.

A little pricey but it's usually well worth it. I personally recommend the Ostrich and emu, you'd think it would taste like chicken or other birds, but in fact it tastes like the leanest steak I've ever had. Absolutely no fat and totally delicious.

You've maybe seen their signs in humorous emails...the advertising slogan is "We all love God's creatures, especially with a side of mashed potatoes."

Great place.

20 posted on 11/15/2005 12:38:09 PM PST by lovecraft (Specialization is for insects.)
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To: adamsjas

I don't think it's unreasonable for it to be in the low hundred thousands. There were millions of large game animals west of the Mississippi. Grizzlys are pretty big scavengers and very adaptable.

I don't have a book in front of me but don't some of the early accounts of frontiersmen talk about the large numbers of grizzlies they encountered? Seems like it was a lot.


21 posted on 11/15/2005 12:38:46 PM PST by Belasarius (Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward. Job 5:2-7)
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To: lovecraft

I can get ostrich burgers here... I'll have to run by the place and try it. I usually eat their buffalo burgers myself, but I should try the ostrich. Thanks.


22 posted on 11/15/2005 12:39:12 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000; Augie

Not all game meat is good. It depends a great deal upon who prepared it, how it was prepared, how it was processed, how it was cared for, etc.

I saw a story in a magazine once that addressed "I had venison once and it was bad." [I paraphrased that because I don't remember the specific complaint.] The article went on to say that if,
A farmer killed a steer, waited a few hours and then did a poor job of field dressing it, dragged it for a mile through a muddy field, flung it in the back of a truck, drove it around all day showing it to his buddies, then hung it from a tree for 2 days, then processed it himself and didn't pay much attention to cleanlinees/hair removal/bone chips/etc., and then didn't package it properly and then cooked it poorly, most people upon trying a sirloin from that steer would say, "I don't like beef."
My point is, "most game meats are good." I think most people that say, "I don't like venison et al" have never had a good cut prepared properly.
I've had deer, elk, bear, beef, lamb, pork, frog legs, alligator and they've all been good. I've had some beef I didn't like.
A buddy of mine eats ground hog and raccoon. He swears it's good but preparation is key. He's got me talked into it. I'm going to try ground hog as soon as I have a decent specimen.


23 posted on 11/15/2005 12:42:12 PM PST by sparkomatic (I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. Phil 4:13)
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To: adamsjas

U. horribilis


24 posted on 11/15/2005 12:42:31 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: coconutt2000

"How does bear taste? Anybody?"

A little like spotted Owl.


25 posted on 11/15/2005 12:43:25 PM PST by billhilly (If you're lurking here from DU (Democrats unglued), I trust this post will make you sick.)
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To: billhilly

You've had some, too?
Mine was roasted on a stick. Got it at the county fair.


26 posted on 11/15/2005 12:45:05 PM PST by sparkomatic (I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. Phil 4:13)
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To: Belasarius
I don't have a book in front of me but don't some of the early accounts of frontiersmen talk about the large numbers of grizzlies they encountered? Seems like it was a lot.

Yeah, but they traveled by horse on game trails and river bottoms in those days. Prime bear country. You don't see that many bears in the open country. One wonders just how good the census was back then. If they extrapolated total population from what they encountered it might be off by several orders of magnitude.

27 posted on 11/15/2005 12:47:32 PM PST by adamsjas
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To: sparkomatic

I heard about that while hunting Whooping Crane.


28 posted on 11/15/2005 12:48:04 PM PST by billhilly (If you're lurking here from DU (Democrats unglued), I trust this post will make you sick.)
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To: lovecraft

I had ostrich at the California State Fair a few years ago
Tasted good, but they had the ostrich there watching you eat...that was weird.


29 posted on 11/15/2005 12:48:41 PM PST by paradoxical
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To: La Enchiladita
I don't understand people who get as close as they can to grizzlies just to watch them and take pictures. I don't fancy being so close to a wild creature with such strength, claws and teeth without some form of self-defense. Stupid people, IMO.

When was the incidence of this supposed to be happening according to the documentary?? I ask because years ago, the Yellowstone bears and human visitors WERE out of control, the bears coming close to cars and people, being nuisances and dangerous because of the food offered them by foolish people.

It was my understanding that park officials have had a much different approach to bear and foolish people control over the past years and have taken measures to keep them separate. In fact, that was very much my experience in...oh, 1998 or so when we took our daughter out there. We only saw one bear, a grizz and it was very very far away. People stopped on the road to take pictures, which is entirely OK. You had to have a telephoto lens to get any sort of pix, it waas that far away.

But when I was in Yellowstone as a girl, I do distinctly remember the black or brown bears being very unafraid of humans, coming up around the cars etc. Because they were enticed to.

30 posted on 11/15/2005 12:48:52 PM PST by prairiebreeze (Take the high road. You'll never have to meet a Democrat.)
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To: sparkomatic

What do you eat with bear?
Mashed tree roots?


31 posted on 11/15/2005 12:51:03 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Request or send care packages for/to troops at www.opgratitude.com)
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To: going hot
U. horribilis

Nope. See here:
http://www.fws.gov/endangered/i/A4I.html

32 posted on 11/15/2005 12:51:20 PM PST by adamsjas
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To: billhilly
I heard about that while hunting Whooping Crane.

A hiker became lost out in the woods - for three days he wandered and lived off the land, drinking from streams, etc.
When the rangers found him, he had killed and was eating a Bald Eagle.
The forest rangers had no choice but to arrest him on the spot.

His trial came up, and he begged the judge for leniency saying, "I was three days with nothing to eat, so I had to kill and eat the eagle to survive."
The judge felt sorry for the young man and dismissed the case. Just as the hiker was leaving the courtroom, the judge, curious, asked, "By the way, what did the Bald Eagle taste like?"
The hiker replied, "It tasted like something between a Spotted Owl and a Whooping Crane, but just a little greasy like California Condor..."

33 posted on 11/15/2005 12:58:53 PM PST by Bon mots
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To: prairiebreeze

Yes, it was Yellowstone. I wasn't aware of how long ago.


34 posted on 11/15/2005 1:02:40 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Request or send care packages for/to troops at www.opgratitude.com)
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To: La Enchiladita
What do you eat with bear? Mashed tree roots?

Bearies, pawtatos, cole claw & cub'ed carrots.

35 posted on 11/15/2005 1:05:20 PM PST by sparkomatic (I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. Phil 4:13)
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To: adamsjas

Sounds good ... can you make the meat into a type of hamburger ?


on another note, msnbc.com had a live vote of "should they be removed from the endangered list"

so i figured this would be a lanside yes .. i mean after all, if they are not endangered, then they dont need to be on the list...

but i guess the vegan hippies of the world were out in masses this morning... it was voted like 80% no.

so... let me get this straight.. this dangerous animal should be on an endangered list, when its not in danger anymore ?


36 posted on 11/15/2005 1:06:37 PM PST by Element187
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To: sparkomatic
Image hosted by TinyPic.com
37 posted on 11/15/2005 1:08:01 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Request or send care packages for/to troops at www.opgratitude.com)
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To: Element187
It should be on the dangerous list.
38 posted on 11/15/2005 1:08:02 PM PST by sparkomatic (I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. Phil 4:13)
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To: La Enchiladita

The Endangered Species Act needs to be modified to allow game management, even hunting, of species that have recovered their numbers to the point that species and neighboring humans have unfortunate encounters.

If Yellow Stone is full of grizzly bears to the point some wander out and kill too many rancher's cattle, the state government DNR should allow some limited grizzly hunting. Men and grizzly bears just don't live nearby in harmony. Taking out the garbage and meeting a bear on the back porch is not something that works.


39 posted on 11/15/2005 1:28:52 PM PST by RicocheT
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To: coconutt2000
"How does bear taste? Anybody?"

Depends. Black bear, I understand that black bear isn't too bad, depending on the season. Grizzlies/brown bears are more carnivorous, and would probably reflect that diet in the taste of their meat. I know they SMELL kind of skunky. That's good enough for me...

40 posted on 11/15/2005 1:43:43 PM PST by redhead (Alaska--Step out of the bus and into the food chain...)
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To: RicocheT

then I'd say that the back porch is in the wrong place...


41 posted on 11/15/2005 1:46:20 PM PST by rahbert
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To: La Enchiladita

Thanks for the find.

Bears inside of Yellowstone are still protected...No Hunting inside the Park, generally.

It is only the Grizzly Bears outside the Park that can be hunted, maybe. There are state hunting controls and seasons and permits off the federal park to be followed.


42 posted on 11/15/2005 2:01:10 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

So how soon do you think we can get a licence to go hunting?


43 posted on 11/15/2005 2:09:17 PM PST by Concho
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To: tioga
Photo
 
 
Vote five stars yes here....
 
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/051109/480/wx11111091842;_ylt=Aj0pNWu50tkRgAawOGcAaGBa24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3bGk2OHYzBHNlYwN0bXA-

44 posted on 11/15/2005 2:12:29 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Concho

The next step in the delisting process is publication in the Federal Register. Public comment will be taken for several months and then changes will be made to the proposal before further hearings.

The Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee is comprised of state and federal agencies from Wyoming, Montana and Idaho. The committee began in 1983 to support the grizzly bear recovery effort in the Yellowstone Park region.

The Sierra Club could delay this even more.

Maybe years until hunting is legal.


45 posted on 11/15/2005 2:18:14 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: La Enchiladita

I'll get flamed for this, but 600 bears doesn't seem like very many to me. I think it's too soon to declare the problem has been solved. And the timing is idiotic; with all of Bush's other problems right now, does the admin need to give the Dems another chance to make an issue of something, to accuse him of insensitivoty to the environment etc?


46 posted on 11/15/2005 2:40:48 PM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: RicocheT

I watched the PBS special as linked here:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/thegrizzly/index.html

During the program, there was some testimony from locals about the increased frequency of bears on their property, as well as other encroachments, and footage of a town hall meeting to support the de-listing.

None of that is mentioned in the narrative on the PBS website; it is all sympathetic to the NRDC and Sierra Club, as well as offering such propaganda to teachers.


47 posted on 11/15/2005 3:00:52 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Request or send care packages for/to troops at www.opgratitude.com)
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To: Steve_Seattle
The count of 600 bears is for the Yellowstone area only. In addition...

Four other grizzly populations in other parts of the lower 48 states will continue to be protected as threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. Alaskan grizzly bears, which number about 30,000, were never listed under the act.

So, there are a lot more than 600 grizzly bears in the U.S., and those 600, according to the article are increasing at 4% per year. That's enough for me.

48 posted on 11/15/2005 3:07:46 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Request or send care packages for/to troops at www.opgratitude.com)
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To: adamsjas

As the website you referred me to indicates, the grizzley is a subspeceis of arctos, to wit, horribilis.


49 posted on 11/15/2005 3:21:27 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Bon mots

In my neck of the woods they winter on the Delaware. Ya can't get rid of the fishy taste !! Ha !


50 posted on 11/15/2005 3:34:11 PM PST by MountainYankee
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